Programming should be part of the school syllabus

[AberystwythLAD]

Anyone else agree with me on this?

When you're a youngster, you find things far easier to pick up, for reasons unbeknown to myself, however its most likely to do with the way a child's brain processes data in comparison to an adult.

The UK has a problem. There is a shortage of software engineers with the advanced skill set to work in the top end of the sector. A few make it, however, they end up in countries like the USA, Germany or the Middle East working for top firms such as IBM and so forth.

I think one of the main problems in this country is we teach people code too late on. Im currently doing a degree and its just not sinking in at all. I can do it when its in front of me, I have some grasp of it but from a theoretical viewpoint i've not a clue. Now had I been taught the basics at a young age I would then have the basic understanding and the know how of how to utilise the Java API to my advantage. This is the same for any other language whether it be a verbal language or a programming language. Teach someone when they're young and its more likely that they'll pick it up quicker. Im not on about the advanced stuff but just the basics they can expand on as they grow up.

I mean,why does the curriculum include things like RE but not logical advanced things like programming or lifestyle important things like budgeting, accounting and finance? Its just ridiculous.

Anyone else think this should be the case?

 

[AberystwythLAD]

x

I agree to a degree but as most parents have never come across code then its unfair to initially put the burden on them. If schools taught programming for a generation and then it was removed from the syllabus then yes you could say 'parents should know this as they've been taught it as a child and its on them to pass it on to future generations'. Thats entirely fair. I think its a bit unfair to blame parents when most of them struggle with basic computing concepts never mind anything like programming, Unix shell, hardware etc.

Knowing a computer inside out for most people in this day and age would be vital. Most companies use computers. If a computer goes down and someone there knows how they work inside out they could essentially get back up and running quicker and their loss would be less.

 

[AberystwythLAD]

If you do that you'll taking away otherwise precious time for students to learn other more important things. I've been in Corporate IT on both sides of the Atlantc since 95. I can't program anything outside of a batch file. Giving that the OP is struggling, then perhaps its not for you and you should look more towards the engineering side of IT, rather than the programming side.

like RE, media studies, etc etc? french? for people who never plan on leaving the country? or have an interest in French? yet so many people here use computers and it would be of great interest to them to know more in depth stuff about how they work.

As far as I'm concerned, the school syllabus should include things like programming, understanding and manipulating a UNIX/Windows filesystem through terminal/etc. So many people don't understand how to use the command line when they should as the GUI doesn't always do as you want plus the command line can be a lot quicker. It should include marketing and how to sell your product and great communication skills. It should include finance/accounting and so forth so people know how to manage money and how to cope with the tax system and so forth. All of which are far more useful to life than RE, media studies and so forth.

 

[AberystwythLAD]

Programming is the engineering side of I.T? Unless your talking about hardware engineering, in which case you must be an electronics engineer?

Some people might automate their own jobs with programming skills =P

Programming is software engineering which is computing.

IT is top level stuff. Only true computer scientists delve into the deep stuff. Programming, command line, Assembler, OS's, algorithms, etc. IT is basic in comparison and thats why computer science/software engineering grads are much more respected than IT grads unless the IT grad done their degree at a university where the IT degrees have a common first year to computer science degree students.

Trust me, I'm an engineer.

 

[AberystwythLAD]

Unfortunately complete rubbish. Most computing courses will cover programming, Assembler, OS's algorithms etc.

Nonsense. Most IT degree, which he mentioned, do not cover anything of the sort. IT degrees are regarded, mainly in the sector, as mickey mouse degrees and they're not respected. They cover things like databases and so forth. Some do delve into the design side of software development, a few even into the code, most DO NOT!

Your employability post graduation (which, is the most important bit, right), will rely upon your ability to apply all of that to something useful.

Agreed on that point. However, Computer Science is more respected than IT, thats a fact across the world.

My experience so far has shown that CompSci grads are no more respected than computing grads. It's up to each of you to prove your worth to your prospective employers, and with that attitude, you're already behind.

I think you've failed to actually read the post properly and missing the argument.

I stated, programming is a part of computing which is true.

Computer Science/Computing degrees, basically the same with a different name, teach you far more in depth stuff than an IT course ever will. Anyone who thinks otherwise is completely deluded.

Computer Science == Computing.

Computer Science/Computing != IT

FACT!

So again, alert me to why you suddenly defended computing degrees? Im studying a computer science/computing degree, I really don't think you've thought through what you've said. Anyone who thinks comp sci/computing is equivalent to IT isn't worth my time, if thats your argument.

 

[AberystwythLAD]

I went to an ex-poly so have never considered my course a true CompSci course like I would have got at red-bricks.

Equally, I've never really considered it an ICT course.

Computing is another name for a Computer Science course. They cover the same aspects.

IT is top level stuff, and doesn't go deep enough to be well respected, hence why its been branded a mickey mouse degree.

 

[AberystwythLAD]

For reference, I didn't get low grades.

For me, it's all about employability and earning potential. I took Computing as I believed it would make me more employable, given the range of things that would be covered.

For me, it worked. I am earning significantly more than any one of my friends that went the CompSci route.

I realise that this will not be the case for all, but saying that an IT qualification is not respected is rubbish. How many graduate recruitment days have you ran? How many people have you personally employed?

You basically studied computer science with a different name then.

IT qualifications are not well respected, thats a fact!

You're saying you earn more than your friends who went the comp sci route yet your degree is computer science with a different name. The fact you have done better than them isn't down to the degree as they're theoretically the same degree (obviously, depending on the uni) but most likely down to the attitude towards work you have and their attitudes. You were probably more committed, worked harder, did more things outside of class to make yourself known and so forth. A piece of paper will only go so far, you have to do the rest and sell yourself to a potential employer. Maybe they just didn't do that well when it came to applying for the big boys in the sector.

 

[AberystwythLAD]

That's not my argument. Please refer to my previous post.

I thought you were putting Computing degrees in the same bracket as IT degrees hence my arguments. It turns out we're arguing the same side

Okay, thats okay

Yeah, your computing degree is basically equivalent to your friends computer science degree and most companies in the sector will see it that way. You can therefore go for any job they can. The fact you're earning more money than they are brings to light that you've either had more luck than them or you've worked harder than them to force your way into a high position in the sector. Only you know the truth, its most likely, as in a lot of cases, a mixture of both.

 

[AberystwythLAD]

Of course computing is a science. A lot of it is built on the foundations of maths and physics.