'progressive' coffee chain 'racist'

PapaLazaru · 20 Apr 2018 at 11:29

Thread is so stupid I cannot even think to formulate a longer response. I feel that I have lost brain cells just by reading it.

Freakbro · 20 Apr 2018 at 11:34

Caracus2k said:
And if the management asked you to leave or declined your request for the code to the door (often printed on receipts in outlets like this)?

I'm not disagreeing with the follow up, sitting at a table and not ordering anything and then refusing to leave is out of order on the guys part, being refused to use the loo is out of order on the staffs part (imo) And the white, female, reporter on the BBC based in the states also said she had done this on numerous occasions over there in the states and had never been refused to use the loo. So, take that from it what you will.

Also, I obviously don't go into enough of these places as I have never seen a toilet door coded that you got from a receipt....but if it was I would probably just find another establishment to use that wasn't coded.

CREATIVE!11 · 20 Apr 2018 at 11:39

Everything is racist. Everything offends me. I am every gender.

#MeToo

GGizmo · 20 Apr 2018 at 11:42

I thought all shops can ask you to leave if you aren't buying anything.

It's like you can't use a customer car park if you're not actually a customer.

I noticed they even ask you to leave if you bring your own drinks/food in too.

[FnG]magnolia · 20 Apr 2018 at 11:44

Is there nothing the OP won't be outraged about?

NARRATOR: No, there is not.

~* Marxist *~

Caracus2k · 20 Apr 2018 at 11:45

Vanquish-Storm said:
Thread title is inaccurate.

How does make the whole company racist?

The ceo has ordered compulsory 'unconscious racism' training for all staff and apologised for his manager doing nothing wrong and doing what her job required. (apparently it's down to individual shops to deicide how they deal with such matters rather then explicit company policy).... A manager asking a non paying member of the public to vacate a business premises is quite normal....

He has bought into the mantra of collective, institutionalised guilt.

Starbucks' chief executive Kevin Johnson said he had been "learning what we did wrong and the steps we need to take to fix it".

He appears to be accepting that this was a racist incident that 'we' (starbucks) need to fix and which was part of a wider institutional issue rather then one rogue employee (hence the universal training) hence I believe my title is not misleading.

Chris Wilson · 20 Apr 2018 at 11:48

I have to wonder whether a lot of these "incidents" are deliberately orchestrated to bring vexatious claims and cause mischief to large companies for political purposes.

mmj_uk · 20 Apr 2018 at 11:51

Tefal said:
Is it? "Toilet is for customers only" is a pretty standard rule

It is a pretty standard rule but I'd still say it's unreasonable unless they're coming in all of the time or you suspect they're using the toilets for ulterior motives. I think if someone is desperate for the toilet it's pretty unreasonable to refuse them when they ask, they could have medical issues or something.

Monkeynut · 20 Apr 2018 at 11:53

At the end of the day, if he wants an office for a meeting, and he wants to do it on his terms, he should rent an office, he shouldn't be sitting in Starbucks using their stuff for free.

Freakbro · 20 Apr 2018 at 11:57

mmj_uk said:
It is a pretty standard rule but I'd still say it's unreasonable unless they're coming in all of the time or you suspect they're using the toilets for ulterior motives. I think if someone is desperate for the toilet it's pretty unreasonable to refuse them when they ask, they could have medical issues or something.

My thoughts exactly.

We seem to have lost a lot of general civility in society - and unfortunately in contrast, replaced it with a lot of self entitlement

Zatoichi.uK · 20 Apr 2018 at 11:58

explicit4u said:
They didn't though did they.

From the links in the OP one of the guy says there was about 2 minutes between them arriving and her calling the cops.

There's even a link to another article on the same page where an employee says the manager has a history of incidents that could be viewed as racist.

It's perfectly normal to wait in a place like starbucks for other people to arrive before ordering.

Me personally I'd buy something small while I wait just to get them off my back. Unfortunately we can never know the tone that the manager used with them so it's impossible to say if it was based in race or not.

They didn't what? They apparently refused to buy anything or leave when asked. The length of time I'm not clear on though. It does seem like an overreaction though and a huge waste of police resources. That's on the people refusing to leave though I feel.

If the manager has a history of racism and this 'rule' isn't enforced across everyone though then of course that's also a problem.

Vanquish-Storm · 20 Apr 2018 at 11:59

Caracus2k said:
The ceo has ordered compulsory 'unconscious racism' training for all staff and apologised for his manager doing nothing wrong and doing what her job required. (apparently it's down to individual shops to deicide how they deal with such matters rather then explicit company policy).... A manager asking a non paying member of the public to vacate a business premises is quite normal....

He has bought into the mantra of collective, institutionalised guilt.

Doing what companies do - lose lose situation - if they had done nothing they would have been branded racist and letting their stores be a law upon themselves.

They have to be seen doing something - does not make the company racist though.

Caracus2k · 20 Apr 2018 at 12:01

Vanquish-Storm said:
Doing what companies do - lose lose situation - if they had done nothing they would have been branded racist and letting their stores be a law upon themselves.

They have to be seen doing something - does not make the company racist though.

I don't think starbucks is racist hence 'racist' in my title.... It's other people that explicitly or implicitly have said and or acknowledged that starbucks is racist.

Edit...

Scratch that they are racist (or at least the management are) but not in the way normally assumed... More racist from the point of view of accepting that apparently different racual groups can be held to different standards by their staff.

VincentHanna · 20 Apr 2018 at 12:07

I like how all these threads spring up and everyone wants to give their two-penneth, when really it's one of those situations that you probably had to be there to understand exactly what happened.

Caracus2k · 20 Apr 2018 at 12:10

VincentHanna said:
I like how all these threads spring up and everyone wants to give their two-penneth, when really it's one of those situations that you probably had to be there to understand exactly what happened.

I take it you will be reserving future comments to incidents you have directly observed in full in the future then.

Hope you never get called for jury service either if you don't think you can examine accounts of people at an incident you didn't personally witness to form a view on what likely occurred.

Caracus2k · 20 Apr 2018 at 12:13

Freakbro said:
My thoughts exactly.

We seem to have lost a lot of general civility in society - and unfortunately in contrast, replaced it with a lot of self entitlement

You think that if you go into a private business and demand to use their facilities without paying for their goods or services and they decline that they are the people with self entitlement and poor manners.

Is this a joke?

Diddums · 20 Apr 2018 at 12:16

Aaaaaaand that's enough internet for now.

Tefal · 20 Apr 2018 at 12:19

Freakbro said:
My thoughts exactly.

We seem to have lost a lot of general civility in society - and unfortunately in contrast, replaced it with a lot of self entitlement

Weirdly it is a traditional thing your using thier device so you pay for its upkeep.

It's modern thinking that you shouldn't pay and would be classed as uncivil and entitlied "let me use your stuff for free because I'm entitled to it"

Tefal · 20 Apr 2018 at 12:20

VincentHanna said:
I like how all these threads spring up and everyone wants to give their two-penneth, when really it's one of those situations that you probably had to be there to understand exactly what happened.

If only there was a video of the whole thing!

Oh wait there is!!!

mmj_uk · 20 Apr 2018 at 12:25

I think what it is is beaucracy gone mad, back in the day companies trusted employees to use their own judgement on these types of situations but today the company has to have a policy on everything which is often binary. Employees are treated like robots who simply enforce the rules sent down from above rather than being allowed to make common sense decisions of their own in the interest of society.

It's common sense that if people take up seating without buying anything you're going to lose custom, particularly if they're a rowdy bunch. I think in the past though employees would have been okay with people doing that as long as they weren't causing trouble and the diner was empty. I don't really see what harm it is doing to allow the odd person use the toilet though.

The trouble is we seem to have become a society where common sense doesn't exist and there are blanket rules for everything with no real flexibility because individual common sense/responsiblity has been replaced by top-down beaucracy.