PS3 vs 360 : A developers POV

Mr Latte · 17 Jan 2007 at 01:10

Joebob said:
You not feeling yourself tonight Mr Latte? You're normally in here with the ruckus fighting it out!

Ive changed to a milder coffee

FrankJH · 17 Jan 2007 at 07:44

Smells fishier than Billingsgate Market!!!

Every developer knows that each new PS unit has taken time to get the best out of it - it certainly happened with Original / PS1/PsOne and PS2 so why would PS3 be any different? Yet with different competition each time its always come out on top

Of course if you copy exactly one X360 game it will work worse on the PS3, I dont really see any significance in this one bit - with every generation consoles excel in one area and are weaker in another. Nothing really phenomenal, it just takes time and skill (which this guy obviously doenst have) to get the most out of EACH machine.

the Hd-DVd / Blu-ray drive has nothing at all to do with developers, so if he wants to take the developer angle this is completely irrelevant. From a consmer POV this is very valid but not from his standpoint (ps I dont think I have ever had a standalone cd player fail on me, let alone a dvd drive - its certainly not as big an issue as it was in the early manufacture of optical drives)

Im also guessing that the majority of people still physically go to shops to buy games / dvd's , dont get me wrong the likes of play etc have got huge businesses but the general public are still more likely to actually go shopping dont you think? The reductions therefore arent going to be evident.

edit ....I wonder how this developer felt when the MS Jan update started killing off X360's hahahaha Windows here we come

Manlove is my forte · 17 Jan 2007 at 08:30

wannabedamned said:
Here is where my first problem is, He's giving a performance analysis. Yet he doesnt comment on actual performance. He comments on coding. Performance wise, If coding was done correctly, The 7 cell processor would be a better performer than the 3 core.

Yes correctly but you make it sound like this is a simple task like laying bricks. It is often stated that there is no correct or perfect way to write computer code. Only the best ballance of cost. Game programmers are under nutorious preassuer to get games out the door by a fixed time. So I doubt many will be capable of getting anything near perfect written. Phil Henson (or hwat ever his name is) the Sony Exec has stated that no one will ever get 100% out of the PS3.

wannabedamned said:

Metal Gear Solid 4 impliments Cell technology, It's one of the main points that kojima productions has been pushing about the game. It's also looking stunning, and i'm sure if they can do it other companies can.

John Carmack (one of, if not, "the" best graphics engine creators of our time) has described the PS3 as a pain in the ass. He has stated it is no where as easy to develop for as the 360. If its easier to develop for then you can spend more time adding in the little touches that make the difference from a good game and a AAA title.

Click to expand...

AFAIK they have all been CGI demos. Also how long have they been working on this game?

wannabedamned said:

I mean these reviews are talking like programmers have a choice! If they are told to code for 7 cells and they want a job, They damn well better do it! and if they don't know how, then they will find themselves jobless and someone who can do it will be in their place!

Click to expand...

I guess you are not aware of how a lot of the sucessful computer game companies start up are you? Often is is due to a number of disgruntaled employees at one of the major studios, leave and start up their own company making the game they want on the platform they choose.
If the Cell becomes unpopular with developers then it will mean companies that produce sony games will have to pay a premium for good Cell coders. Thus further increasing the cost of PS3 game development.
I would bet that the 360 will have many many more High quality exclusives than the PS3.

JUMPURS · 17 Jan 2007 at 08:34

warren_1979 said:
Some of the things you come out with Jumpers are borderline moronic, they really are.

care to explain?

And get my fricking name right! Its in the quote you posted, it also appears twice in my Sig!

mmj_uk · 17 Jan 2007 at 09:29

That developer makes the Xbox 360 sound so good compared to PS3, I'd love to ask him why so many games have jaggies, slowdown and tearing when the Xbox is clearly so technically brilliant.

Manlove is my forte · 17 Jan 2007 at 09:44

mmj_uk said:
That developer makes the Xbox 360 sound so good compared to PS3, I'd love to ask him why so many games have jaggies, slowdown and tearing when the Xbox is clearly so technically brilliant.

Same question but with regards to the "More Powerful" PS3.

The Mad One · 17 Jan 2007 at 09:49

wannabedamned said:
Terrible! You'll have to buy another PS3 in 3 years when the DVD drive dies. But when the HD Drive dies you'll just have to replace the HD-DVD??

What a load of crap! Has he been borrowing my crystal ball??

I personally agree with what he said about the drive, I'd much rather go out and buy another drive for £100 or less when it dies rather then paying around £200 for another 360 (if it was integrated), plus the fact u can plug it into a PC is another plus.

Pug · 17 Jan 2007 at 09:52

Kronologic said:
Same question but with regards to the "More Powerful" PS3.

because he already admitted its harder to code for.

The 360, being so powerful and easy to code on it shouldn't be an issue.

JUMPURS · 17 Jan 2007 at 10:20

The Mad One said:
I personally agree with what he said about the drive, I'd much rather go out and buy another drive for £100 or less when it dies rather then paying around £200 for another 360 (if it was integrated), plus the fact u can plug it into a PC is another plus.

What about the fact you need two power sockets for said setup?
And TBH the HD-DVD add on will not fall substantially in price, but i think the PS3 will.

Manlove is my forte · 17 Jan 2007 at 10:21

Pug said:
because he already admitted its harder to code for.

The 360, being so powerful and easy to code on it shouldn't be an issue.

No the issue should be less previlant, but to say that it shouldn't be an issue at all is a bit silly imo.

Its something that the 360 developers will resolve in time. This is new and custom kit afterall. I see very few codding errors like this in the games I play and you know what. I simply think to myself (or mumble out loud) "Thats odd". I don't get outraged or up in arms like a number of posters here do (The worst offenders do not even own the console)

JUMPURS · 17 Jan 2007 at 10:23

Kronologic said:
No the issue should be less previlant, but to say that it shouldn't be an issue at all is a bit silly imo.

Its something that the 360 developers will resolve in time. This is new and custom kit afterall. I see very few codding errors like this in the games I play and you know what. I simply think to myself (or mumble out loud) "Thats odd". I don't get outraged or up in arms like a number of posters here do (The worst offenders do not even own the console)

They are barely doing it now and this is 3rd gen games we are on. How much time do they need to impliment 4x AA?

but the 360 which is ment to be so easy to program for is prone to a lot of 'schoolboy errors'.
But the PS3 is more difficult to program for, seems to be not any worse? in fact, is it actually slightly better? I still haven't had any tearing on a PS3 title yet.

Joebob · 17 Jan 2007 at 10:30

mmj_uk said:
That developer makes the Xbox 360 sound so good compared to PS3, I'd love to ask him why so many games have jaggies, slowdown and tearing when the Xbox is clearly so technically brilliant.

Kronologic said:
Same question but with regards to the "More Powerful" PS3.

Kronologic said:
(The worst offenders do not even own the console)

So kronologic, you must own a PS3 then to be able to comment about jaggies, slowdown and tearing on it? I have not noticed any of this on mine!

Smit · 17 Jan 2007 at 10:36

JUMPURS said:
They are barely doing it now and this is 3rd gen games we are on. How much time do they need to impliment 4x AA?

but the 360 which is ment to be so easy to program for is prone to a lot of 'schoolboy errors'.
But the PS3 is more difficult to program for, seems to be not any worse? in fact, is it actually slightly better? I still haven't had any tearing on a PS3 title yet.

Going by the games realesed on both consoles, the framerate is worse on the PS3.

However that could be down to the game being developed on the Xbox360 as the main version and then ported to the PS3

Smit · 17 Jan 2007 at 10:37

Joebob said:
So kronologic, you must own a PS3 then to be able to comment about jaggies, slowdown and tearing on it? I have not noticed any of this on mine!

To be fair, just reading the reviews PLUS the comments from a few people on here who have played the PS3... There is slowdown problems just like the Xbox 360 has.

Also a number of people don't notice any tearing while playing on the Xbox 360 whereas other people notice it quite badly in the same game... So could be down to the individual setup and tv or just some people notice it more than others

JUMPURS · 17 Jan 2007 at 10:48

Smit said:
Going by the games realesed on both consoles, the framerate is worse on the PS3.

However that could be down to the game being developed on the Xbox360 as the main version and then ported to the PS3

I think its a marginal worse, but tbh the jaggies and tearing etc on a machine out for what 14 months? developers will have had kits for 26 months at least. With the 360 it is that easy to program for there should be little/no learning curve. But everybody acknowledges the PS3 has a steep learning curve.
So by that reconing with steep learning curve and a machine being out 2 months Vs a machine been out for 13/14 months with low learning curve, you would expect some framerates to be a bit worse.

I have noticed drops in framerate, mainly playing UL: DK. Resistance is rock solid, F1 CE i haven't noticed any slowdown, so if there is any it is barely noticable. But MotoGP was terrible for slowdown, and that came out a longer way into a consoles life.
But the tearing on the 360 is something i never thought i would ever really see, and it gets really annoying.
For the record i think there are less jaggies on the PS3 than the 360. But with the 360 some games have little jaggies some are badddd

Manlove is my forte · 17 Jan 2007 at 11:08

Joebob said:
So kronologic, you must own a PS3 then to be able to comment about jaggies, slowdown and tearing on it? I have not noticed any of this on mine!

Its common knowledge for a start, just like it is on the 360. I have never once complained about it.

Secondly I was mearly indicating that the poster I asked the "Same Question" was making a comment about one console when in fact it was an issue on both consoles.

I think the reason for all the Jaggy, tearing, slowdown is more to do with Garbage in Garbage out than the actual consoles themselves. Personally.

I think the coders have been rushed, the testers have been rushed and they had to draw a line in the sand and say, "This is good enough".

Joebob · 17 Jan 2007 at 11:10

IGN said:
Console launch years only come around twice a decade or so, and they're always guaranteed to be exciting years. The 360 matured dramatically since this time last year and its second-generation titles like Gears of War and CoD3 made the PlayStation 3's job of shocking the world with its immense power rather difficult.

Nintendo's Wii launched to massive mainstream applause and a lot of hope has been placed in the potential for gaming innovation via the console's unique controller. Nintendo disappointed some, however, by choosing not embrace HDTV or to compete with Sony and Microsoft in processing power. The Wii can't even play normal DVDs.

Judging the consoles based upon a broad perspective that includes software now available and coming in the future an entirely different argument could be formulated. However, from a hardware perspective, the PS3 is by far the more interesting console. Though the launch software hasn't blown anyone away, the 360's launch titles were equally unimpressive, and the system will certainly mature. Sony's embrace of the PS3 as a computer rather than just a console, and the availability of supported Linux distributions for the console will also develop and will likely bear entirely unexpected fruit in future.

Thought this was interesting

Mr Latte · 17 Jan 2007 at 11:15

JUMPURS said:
What about the fact you need two power sockets for said setup?
And TBH the HD-DVD add on will not fall substantially in price, but i think the PS3 will.

GAMES FOR X360 WILL NEVER APPEAR ON HD-DVD FORMAT simple as the HD-DVD drive is nothing to do with developers. The reason is Microsoft see the future of games delivery via downloads be it in episodic content for games with continuing stories just like any popular tv show or full game downloads. 5 million LIVE subscribers says so far its viable to do it only with limitations in some areas for their download speeds. Even on PS3 approx 80% of owners downloaded GT-HD, all this talk of Blu Ray HD-DVD with large storage capacity isnt relivant if content is going to be downloaded in the future. The future is downloads,networks and removable storage not some optical format.

PS3 biggest problem is its price barrier and its because of the built in drive. I think thats what the developer is referring to. If you want to play PS3 games you gotta pay full whack for the pleasure and in the states most people so far dont care much for Blu Ray as theyd rather have the extra $200 in their pocket getting perhaps the 360.

Manlove is my forte · 17 Jan 2007 at 11:17

Joebob said:
Thought this was interesting

Sounds to me like corperate ass licking to me, IGN wouldn't do a thing like that would they

mmj_uk · 17 Jan 2007 at 12:02

Kronologic said:
Secondly I was mearly indicating that the poster I asked the "Same Question" was making a comment about one console when in fact it was an issue on both consoles.

But if (according to the article) the 360 is so incredibly powerful, intelligently designed and made so convenient to program for, then why does it suffer at all? especially when you consider it has been on the market a full year longer and as I recall development kits were sent out long before PS3 ones were.