PS4 to use x86 CPU??

Yes I was reading something about this yesterday evening over at Techspot.com.

Sony are its rumoured to be looking at an AMD or APU solution to power the next Playstation to reduce costs, the CELL didn't really stand up as well as it should have against the 360...

Basically, Sony created an inhouse CPU that is reportedly very powerful, however only a small number of developers actually got to gripes with it, and mostly nearly all games were on par or slightly worse performance when comparable across cross platform.

The PS3 does well when its lead platform or the developer does use the CELL to all its advantages however generally, the PS3 didn't from reports I've read stack up well against the competition and Sony would prefer to outsource the CPU/GPU this time around.

Personally, I feel this is maybe Sony finally admitting the PS3 was tricky to optimise for, and the CELL despite it being reported to be quite powerful, wasn’t' all it was intended to be or as successful with developers at Sony might have liked.

Sony are not really in a position to release another console hoping developers tackle the complexities of the hardware and would I wager prefer a solution that’s quick and easy to both implement into a new console design and be quick and easy for developers to create games for...

Basically - erm what MS did with the 360.
 
I have said in many other forums that the CELL was a flash in the pan. Its great for some stuff (more specialised) than games hardware.

IBM and Toshiba have already abandoned the CELL. There was only Sony keeping it alive. Sony would get a more developer friendly environment using regular CPUs.

I don't know if a Llano would be powerful enough for the PS4. Maybe a custom Llano or something based on the Piledriver cores.
 
djkav said:
CELL was a joint development with IBM, Toshiba and Sony. I think IBM had the lead on design and Fab.
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Yes stand corrected, it was joint - should have pointed this out however Sony did invest a lot of time and money into the CELL, hasn't really paid off mind.
 
iv-tecman said:
Personally, I feel this is maybe Sony finally admitting the PS3 was tricky to optimise for, and the CELL despite it being reported to be quite powerful, wasn’t' all it was intended to be or as successful with developers at Sony might have liked.
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I don't think they've ever denied that it wasnt hard to code for. The SDKs werent all that great either in the beginning. seems a shame if I'm honest that they will be dumping it for the next gen, as its powerful. We've seen how powerful! And now the SDKs have matured, and devs are working wonders with the PS3, Sony Devs in particular. I could imagine an uprated CELL would have been a good thing in the PS4.

So I'm going to go against the grain here and say I wish they werent going back to x86

An uprated Cell + GPU would have been preferable.
 
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ic1male said:
So no backwards compatibility in PS4?
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Well, could emulate PS1 /PS2 or come up with some elegant design to include some type of CELL backward compatibility if the rumours about AMD /GPU solution are true.. Depends on costs, I’d say emulation of PS1 /PS2 is easily going to be possible with current trends in latest AMD /GPU solutions – depends on a lot of factors though, and do we need it, or would sony want to include it?

It’s all speculation, nothing is really known about PS4, or if Sony is even working on a new playstation...
 
wannabedamned said:
I cant see all these HD remakes coming out being lost due to the next console release.
That would be bad form indeed.
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Sony cared little in the end for PS2 backward compatibility for the PS3, it was a feature then it got removed to cut costs etc..

Adding PS3 backward support would be a feature needed to ensure some of the better exclusives aren’t lost, however I somehow just can’t see Sony wanting to add features that increases costs. PS1 and PS2 support I see as being fully software emulated. Ps3 backward support, it’ll require a custom chip which will increase productin costs. Unless the new CPU /GPU arrangement Sony designs into the board ‘does’ allow for CELL emulation such as what the PS3 does now - as in CELL hardware used today scaled down and put into the PS4 not on the ref board design, but into the O/S as emulation. I somehow doubt it, have to be fairly powerful CPU to do it via emulation.

I do agree about the CELL being powerful when you look at some of the stellar titles many of the Sony backed developers have managed. Uncharted series and GT5 however its not been enough to substantiate its massive development costs and nowhere near enough third party developers used it to its reported max potential.

Its always been 360 for multi platform and online, PS3 for exclusives.

Who knows anyhow, it’s all speculating. Its all rumours have to wait and see what pans out over the next few months to a year. Maybe Sony has totally different plans for the CELL.
 
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Surely they could make the "standard PS4", and then have a "premium edition" which includes a Cell chip and is backwards compatible, but costs a bit more? This would be a good way to cater to everyone and not alienate a load of people who have big PS3 game collections
 
SheepBeast said:
Surely they could make the "standard PS4", and then have a "premium edition" which includes a Cell chip and is backwards compatible, but costs a bit more? This would be a good way to cater to everyone and not alienate a load of people who have big PS3 game collections
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heat and power drain on a machine with PS3 and new console architecture in the same box..
 
Rubbish idea imo. Cost cutting and changing architectures from PS2 has meant no PS2 BC on PS3. The only thing the super powerful PS3 can give use is PS1 games BC. For PS2 stuff they have just remastered select titles and charged us for them again!! The HD remasters are awesome but I would happily give them up for genuine PS2 emulation with a few extra graphics options.

If PS3 can't (due to costs, emulator complexity, RAM requirements, whatever) emulate the previous gen, then I do not hold out much hope for PS4 emulating PS3. I would hate a situation where we lose PS3 BC in PS4 and get given PS2 emulation instead :).

By now developers/studios have spent a fair whack on learning to code/develop for PS3 architecture, so just make PS4 more of the same. Maybe 4/8 Cells in parallel or something like that and a better GPU and more RAM?


rp2000
 
rp2000 said:
Rubbish idea imo. Cost cutting and changing architectures from PS2 has meant no PS2 BC on PS3. The only thing the super powerful PS3 can give use is PS1 games BC. For PS2 stuff they have just remastered select titles and charged us for them again!! The HD remasters are awesome but I would happily give them up for genuine PS2 emulation with a few extra graphics options.

If PS3 can't (due to costs, emulator complexity, RAM requirements, whatever) emulate the previous gen, then I do not hold out much hope for PS4 emulating PS3. I would hate a situation where we lose PS3 BC in PS4 and get given PS2 emulation instead :).

By now developers/studios have spent a fair whack on learning to code/develop for PS3 architecture, so just make PS4 more of the same. Maybe 4/8 Cells in parallel or something like that and a better GPU and more RAM?


rp2000
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Threading games just doesn't work like that, you can't just keep bolting weak processors together to get decent improvements.
 
Kreeeee said:
Threading games just doesn't work like that, you can't just keep bolting weak processors together to get decent improvements.
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I am sure I read somewhere that CELL was designed to be scaled well like this by adding more main CELL cpus and/or adding more SPU? Hard to say as I am sure none of us knows the intricacies of this particular cpu architecture. I am sure your comments are valid in a general sense though. :p


rp2000
 
Yeah I just read these articles and these say more or less similar things to the OP article.

http://freeshit4real.com/blog2/?p=543

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...-cell-like-cpu-for-amd-pc-like-innards-report

Hmmm very interesting to see that AMD chips will be utilised in both Xbox 720 'durango' and PS4. Would it be right to say that if this is the case then both consoles will be more or less on par with each other in terms of performance?

The interesting question is why Sony didn't turn to Intel for cpu?

It seems consoles are becoming more like low-mid range PCs.
 
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