Pump shootout - noise

Danger Den CPX-Pro Pump Review

http://martin.skinneelabs.com/Danger-Den_CPX-Pro-Pump-Review.html

BigBrother of the DangerDen CPX1 / D-tek DB1

DangerDen CPX1 / D-tek DB1 500L/hr (132 gallons/hr)

DangerDen CPX-Pro 800 Liters/hour (211.3 gallons/hour)

Danger Den CPX-Pro Pump Sound Testing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNDcHojyr0w


Quote

" So the pump added noise level fits in to the "Barely Perceptible Change" noise level, the lowest I've recorded yet, very nice!"

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Anybody got one to lend shadowscotland :)

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Thanks for that Ice Tea
I must admit I nearly brought one to test as it's little brother is a great pump.
Would gladly test it if some could lend me one - please :)

If Martin's reply on the youtube link (below) is any thing to go by it's not a silent setup pump and 48dB ambient is quiet loud (relative to the ~35dB of my house at night)
It is a much lower pitch noise than the D5 with would be much easier to mask with fan noise / AcoustiPack

Yes, it's one of the more quiet pumps that I've played around with. I think at least as quiet, and likely more silent than the MCP655/D5 at setting 5.

Using the same blocksetup in Martin's flow rate estimator as the others above the CPX-pro gets 1.85gpm.
Based on the comment above and I'll insert it above the D5@5 with an untested note.
As with the DDC ultra / Xspc bayres it's not a ultra quiet pump

Edit: updated recomendations into use types
 
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I must admit the CPX-pro in the YouTube clip didn't sound all that quiet to me but i wasn't sure if it was my crappy compressed laptop speakers and the fact that he was measuring the DB with pump flat on it's side on a worktop.


It is a much lower pitch noise than the D5 with would be much easier to mask with fan noise / AcoustiPack

Do you mean with the D5 on setting 5 or setting 1 or 2 ?


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The CPX-pro has a lower pitch noise that the D5 on setting 5 (think dentist drill in next room)

At setting 1 and 2 you only hear vibration noise if the pump touches anything.
If you hold it in your hand or have it on a folded towel it's below early sunday morning ambient aka near silent
It's a strong vibration and did travel up the tube to make my EK res vibrate too.
So I'd be carefull using it with a hard mounted bay res.
 
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I've ditch all the aluminum in my loop inc the Zalman with the internal Eheim.
But my tiny ATX case is not really big enought so may stick with the DB-1.

Really wasn't expecting the D5 to be the best... some decisions to make...
 
oh nice finally a proper place i can see what my 2nd hand but in excellent condition new pump can do, nice to see that u rated the db1 so well, guess i got myself a bargin when i managed to get it for £15 delivered from a well known auction site..

Guys would u think this is over kill,

Atm i use an APOGEEDRIVE350 as it was part of the kit i bought, but im planning an upgrade, i have myself a black ice stealth gt 240 rad, and planning to get the 360 version of that rad also (easy fit in my bay drives gotta love cm590), and also the Swiftech MCRES.

At first im only planning to continue to cool the cpu only, so i was planning to carry on using the APOGEEDRIVE350 and use the db1 as well, only down side to the apogeedrive is its 3/8" barbs on it that u can't replace.

Long winded way of asking but would u guys recomend me replacing the apogeedrive with a better block? I kinda like the idea of it as i can get nice flow rates without spending a fortune on top end stuff.

In time i will be cooling the North bridge and possibly my GPU or a newer GPU if i get one, so im kinda thinking down the line with this one.

Sorry for for posting this in ur topic shadowscotland, but thought as ur all discussing pumps was best place, but very nice testing, that will come in very handy to many people.
 
Twin pump loops can work but you MUST use same pump.
The APOGEEDRIVE has a DDC 3.1 build into it - your better off buying a res top and converting it to a stand alone pump. Getting a top five block at the same time and your all set. (there a good how-too artical on the web somewhere)
But it is worth starting your own thread to try and keep this on OT (your get more help that way too :D)

@Monkey Puzzle - don't have the DDC any more (only got it to test now sold on) so can't check anymore.
I did want to volt mod it but just ran out of time :o
Also didn't test it with the stock top for the same reason :(
But I don't see any reason why someone wouldn't put an aftermarket top on the pump...
 
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Yeh no probs shadow, was just after a quick answer, still need more research, but thanks for answering, i'll let the post go back on topic thanks for ur answer and sorry for making it go OT .
 
I've ditch all the aluminum in my loop inc the Zalman with the internal Eheim.
But my tiny ATX case is not really big enought so may stick with the DB-1.

Really wasn't expecting the D5 to be the best... some decisions to make...

My god i thought you would never part with your much loved Reserator :D

What are you going to use for a fanless radiator ?

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The APOGEEDRIVE has a DDC 3.1 build into it - your better off buying a res top and converting it to a stand alone pump. Getting a top five block at the same time and your all set.

I did that with mine and it made no difference to temps at all. Maybe it's a limitation of my loop, I don't know.

Dragging myself back on topic though it did make the pump much, much quieter. Having a body of water on top of the pump and AV mounting it has made it completely inaudible so I'm very happy in that respect, especially as I have modded it to 18w. :)
 
Lol – I’m still a Reserator fan boy – But experimenting with radiant rads.

The DiscreteHeat skirting rad I had in my last loop was aluminium but I’ve found a copper core
alternative made by Heatprofile – has copper connections too and no 90 degree bends :).

Don’t have issue with a mostly aluminium loop with a single copper element (that’s coated),
but a mostly copper loop with a aluminium res is just asking for trouble.

Oh and I have plans for the Res2 ;)

Feel free to ask question in my stagnate build thread as it’s just about to be reactivated
(might even get some done tonight ;)

@wolvers69 - nice one, I really like your build - tidy / effecient and quiet.
And I'm guessing it inaudible due to light fan noise (Noctua plus the enermax psu)
I had that psu before my Fanless yesico - was the last fan I used in a finished build :D
 
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Thanks mate, I'm really pleased with it now it's much quieter. I wish I could find a way to get cooler ambient air through the rear radiator. It would really help temps a lot.

Looking forward to seeing what you've been up too with my tools!!
 
I always found modding a 10w DDC pumps to 18w a rather strange thing to do considering the heat dump trade off.

I guess the thought process behind the mod is that the gain in higher flow out-weighs the heat dump of the increased wattage which isn't necessarily the case plus the 10w DDC is far less prone to cause vortexing or cavitation.


first post \o/
 
Welcome to the forum coolmiester - I do beleive that is the best first post I've ever read!
Now I have to go and look up cavitation*... :D

Edit: Now you don't what had happending - learn someting every day - thanks coolmiester now I know what it called
*wiki had nice pic but this link was better
 
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I doubt that much heat that is created by the pump itself is dumped into the loop. It would if it was a submerged pump.

Also, you'd know if a pump was cavitating as you would hear it.
 
I doubt that much heat that is created by the pump itself is dumped into the loop. It would if it was a submerged pump.

Also, you'd know if a pump was cavitating as you would hear it.

You think so???

I stumbled across this ages ago probably like many others maybe when leak testing but just lately i have been doing a lot of reservoir building for other projects and on one occasion i left a res hooked up with a DDC 3.2 for a good few hours and noticed the temperature of the liquid was really warm which got me thinking about heat dump from different pumps.

I know Martin touched on this with his Danger Den CPX-Pro Pump Review, noticing at the 2 GPM mark, the DDC is consuming nearly 21 watts, where then DD CPX-Pro is only consuming about 15 watts, so the DDC at that point is consuming about 40% more power which in the end becomes added heat to the loop so i just thought i would do a simple comparison (as only i can given limited equipment) between pumps without any form of cooling, basically to see what sort of heat dump is generated from the pump alone.

Anyway, both tests were started with normal tap water which gave a reading of just slightly over 20 degrees on start up with the temp probe attached to the top of the rad then left the loop running for 3 hours.

Results after 3 hours:
DDC 18watt 3.2 = 37.9
CPX-Pro = 29.4



The results are quite amazing really from pump to pump and it would appear running a DDC 3.2 gives quite a clear disadvantage right from the get-go though admittedly i was only using an XSPC Temp Censor to monitor temps but it does give a good like for like comparison.

Now i'm not trying to cause pump wars in any way but i do however think that this needs more in depth research with better equipment as imo, 8 or 9degrees is pretty significant in the scheme of thing.
 
Definitely interesting stuff coolmiester. I'm not hugely amazed though.

I would have thought that you need to work out how much heat is created by the water itself too. Any fluid under pressure would surely create it's own heat and that would vary with different pumps.

Did you leave the water's temp to normalise for a few hours first, rather than using it straight from the tap?
 
Wise words from Martin...

A DDC3.2 with top is quite a bit stronger than a CPX-pro.

In the end of all this, it probably depends on the waterblock/rad setup. Naeku said he saw good gains with the RD-30 at around 21V.

A DDC3.2 with XSPC res top is pretty close in performance to an RD-30 at 15V, where dual DDC 3.2s with XSPC tops is closer to an RD-30 at 21V.

From the little bit of discussion I have heard on the RD-30, 24V is almost always worse, and back in the day most people were running them around 18V. Somewhere in the 25-21V range is probably optimal.

Think of it like an air/fuel mixture ratio on your motorcyle, too much air and you can lean out your motor and fry a piston, too much and you'll foul plugs....neither of which produces the best horsepower

That's similar here, there is not any bad pump or perfect pump, it's all about tuning....the only way to know whats perfect is to test and tune your own specific setup....there may not be any sort of rule of thumb to follow..

All we know at this point is:

-There are thermal gains to flow rate, more is always better but that gain is quickly flattening beyond the 1-1.5 GPM range
-Pump heat dump plays a significant role and will quickly cross the lines of the thermal gain at some point
-Open channel blocks from several years ago had nearly 4X the thermal gains from flow rate in the 1-2GPM range than some of todays blocks
-Pumps of today such as the D5, DDC, CPX-Pro, etc...have significantly higher pressure capabilities that pond style pumps from several years ago.

The best pump and setting for your system will be one that gives you the most delta between flow rate thermal gain and heat pump heat dump loss. It's likely not going to be any set number and will heavily depend on the radiator fan combination, the waterblock used, and the amount of heat generated by the pump.

I never said an RD-30 was a bad pump, all I'm saying is heat is important and you need to spend the time to balance flow rate gains from pump heat dump losses if you truely want the "perfect" setup. We can't generalize like that, we need the patience and will to test our own setups if you really want the best possible performance possible. An RD-30 at 24V is likely well over optimal for any system, but it is an awesome pump and can run clear down to 12V if needed, so it's tunable and an excellent pump. If we don't want to bother with the work, we need to accept it's probably not perfect. For most people that don't care about a degree, which may mean the larger audience, I wouldn't worry about it...pick something and go with it.
 
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