Queuing on the hard shoulder

[TW]Fox · 28 Nov 2018 at 06:12

Anyone else noticed this has become a thing?

Noticed it a few times now when driving down the M5 at rush hour, notably around Cheltenham and Gloucester. Often half a mile or more of traffic queueing for the exit on the hard shoulder.

You can see the thought process as it keeps the live lane clear but surely this isn't legal? Plus unless you are prepared for it you get people unable to safely exit as they don't realise until too late that the queue to get off is on the hard shoulder and then end up having to push their way in..

Thoughts?

Rroff · 28 Nov 2018 at 06:23

Is this with or without "smart" motorway controls in effect? I've occasionally seen it lit up on the overhead boards to use hard shoulder for next junction.

Personally I find it a very short sighted approach (legal or illegal) seeing as so few people in this country seem to be able to wrap their heads around how to position their cars in slow/stopped traffic to make a lane if needed by emergency vehicles, etc. while in many other countries they seem to manage it fine.

Participant · 28 Nov 2018 at 06:31

This happens on junction 14 of the M40 towards Warwick and in this case seems to be caused by two things.

1. British people will queue when there's even the merest suggestion that a queue may be forming, meaning that the merge in turn lanes off the exit are never used, causing queueing on the hard shoulder instead.

2. Lorries, white vans, and Range Rovers physically position themselves to block people overtaking the queue and prevent people exiting at the correct place, something that's also extremely dangerous as people are forced to stop in lane 1 unexpectedly until someone let's them in. This merge in turn blocking should be prosecuted.

I often queue on the hard shoulder there myself for reason number 2. (Blocking not needing a poo).

200sols · 28 Nov 2018 at 06:36

Its not a thing I have ever seen except on smart motorways.

[TW]Fox · 28 Nov 2018 at 06:37

Rroff said:
Is this with or without "smart" motorway controls in effect? I've occasionally seen it lit up on the overhead boards to use hard shoulder for next junction

Completely normal 3 lane non smart motorway.

It seems that despite the good intentions it's really quite dangerous.

Rroff · 28 Nov 2018 at 06:37

Participant said:
This merge in turn blocking should be prosecuted.

Again - not wishing to revisit the whole debate - while some people might not care - I think this would be vastly improved by a TV/Ad campaign despite the protestations of some - I was talking to a load of van (courier) drivers recently (for reasons not giving context) and aside from 1-2 younger ones the rest hadn't really taken onboard that section 134 of the highway code had changed. (Mind you some had to be reminded about the different speed limits for vans despite otherwise having good knowledge of the highway code).

Scania · 28 Nov 2018 at 06:48

Noticed this around Jct 25 of the M5 (Taunton) southbound and around Warwick on the M40 especially, some very near misses caused by traffic not being able to exit as you say after not appreciating the queue on the hard shoulder is for the motorway exit.

I think in the event of a serious accident those on the hard shoulder could well be in a bit of bother...

200sols · 28 Nov 2018 at 06:51

It’s the sort of thing plod should be dealing with, very easy to catch those doing it.

Rroff · 28 Nov 2018 at 06:54

[TW]Fox said:
Completely normal 3 lane non smart motorway.

It seems that despite the good intentions it's really quite dangerous.

Guess I was still waking up - for some reason I thought you said M25 - I've seen it a bit more often there - not seen it on the gantries on the M5 other than if there is an accident. (That you mentioned Cheltenham and Gloucester should have really clued me in).

Scania said:
Noticed this around Jct 25 of the M5 (Taunton) southbound

Been some serious accidents there including I think due to people queuing on the hard shoulder. (I've also seen some near misses there due to people not realising there is a queue until very late).

EDIT: While you can't go doing it at every junction, etc. and only so far you can really cater for stupidity they probably should seriously consider reducing the speed limit through that junction to 50mph this is only one in a number of recent serious incidents there https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-45524737

[TW]Fox · 28 Nov 2018 at 07:05

200sols said:
It’s the sort of thing plod should be dealing with, very easy to catch those doing it.

I'd imagine it'll be like Christmas for a dashcammer. You can just imagine the shrieking happiness as they cruise past

Skillmister · 28 Nov 2018 at 07:10

Happens most nights on a junction of the A55 at Colwyn Bay so dual carriageway. If people dont do it there are huge tailbacks with it being only 2 lanes so I'm glad they do. Theres a set of 3 way traffic lights at the top of the slip road and then a set of 4 way about 50m after with useless timings so not many cars get through at a time.

Rroff · 28 Nov 2018 at 07:17

[TW]Fox said:
I'd imagine it'll be like Christmas for a dashcammer. You can just imagine the shrieking happiness as they cruise past

You'll have to provide your own shrieks of happiness.

bainbridge · 28 Nov 2018 at 07:33

Scania said:
Noticed this around Jct 25 of the M5 (Taunton) southbound and around Warwick on the M40 especially, some very near misses caused by traffic not being able to exit as you say after not appreciating the queue on the hard shoulder is for the motorway exit.

I think in the event of a serious accident those on the hard shoulder could well be in a bit of bother...

I witnessed quite a smash on the Taunton junction when queuing on the southbound sliproad to get off.

If I remember correctly this.junction has a very short sliproad. I was just about on it and stationary with 2 more vehicles behind me poking out into lane 1, a Golf and a Vivaro. A Civic going along in lane 1 apparently didn't see the queue because he braked way too late and went straight into the back of the Vivaro at about 40mph, shunting him into the back of the golf which in turn lurched forward and stopped a whisker behind my car. Bits of Vivaro bounced off my roof!

Vivaro man got out rubbing his neck, civic man was checking everyone was OK and the couple in the golf were fine put the man looked crestfallen after examining the rear of his car.

I viewed all this through my mirrors and didn't see the damage to the van or the civic but it must have been substantial, probably very lucky a van took the brunt rather than a car.

Everyone was standing round on the motorway, I felt pretty exposed so having not been involved left the scene.

Doesn't sound too scary but after bracing for an impact which didn't arrive I just wanted to get to my destination and have a cuppa.

IAmATeaf · 28 Nov 2018 at 07:43

I’ve not seen this yet!

Does look bloody dangerous as can be seen in the dashcam footage where you only find out that the exit to the junction is blocked when you’re in it.

Rroff · 28 Nov 2018 at 08:12

bainbridge said:
I witnessed quite a smash on the Taunton junction when queuing on the southbound sliproad to get off.

Seen some near misses at the junction but the only crashes I've witnessed there were on the roundabout below.

bloodiedathame · 28 Nov 2018 at 08:19

Those junctions should be policed. If you don't know the area, were approaching and saw cars queuing in the hard shoulder, chances are you'd not realise they are taking the junction and that it'd be too late to move over. Feel sorry for you sods who have these types of commutes, must be pretty soul destroying.

Kreeeee · 28 Nov 2018 at 09:00

It's really common here on the continent and it works well, but here there are often just two lanes for the motorways so it's needed here more than in the UK.

[TW]Fox · 28 Nov 2018 at 09:09

IAmATeaf said:
you only find out that the exit to the junction is blocked when you’re in it.

This is the issue. Perhaps it works if it's your daily commute but for those for whom it's not..

Jez · 28 Nov 2018 at 09:13

[TW]Fox said:
This is the issue. Perhaps it works if it's your daily commute but for those for whom it's not..

Would you really wait in that line anyway, even if it were in lane 1? I always wonder who the people are who wait in these

This is weird, i have never seen it but surely this is overall good for the road network to keep the lines off of the flowing lanes. A huge cause of jams around london are a running lane line for an exit.

Rroff · 28 Nov 2018 at 09:19

Jez said:
Would you really wait in that line anyway, even if it were in lane 1?

If that is your exit and the next exit and route is an additional say 20+ miles, etc. what choice do you have?