Quick grammar check please

Feek said:
No, that's wrong. That's saying that it's the smallest of the Channel Islands (it isn't) and that it's open to the public.

I think just swapping 'that' to 'which' makes the difference I'm looking for.
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csmager said:
Some of the re-writes here are good, but I think the problem with "that is" is it is redundant. It still makes sense without:
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It still makes sense, but it is not correct. 'that is' is not redundant.
 
Amleto said:
It still makes sense, but it is not correct. 'that is' is not redundant.
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How? (genuine question!)

I can't see a semantic difference between "The smallest island open to the public" and "The smallest island that is open to the public".
 
Amleto said:
just read my post, including feek's quote.
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Still don't see it.

The part Feek quoted was this:

It is the smallest of the Channel Islands, open to the public...
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which has a very different meaning to what I wrote, which was:

It is the smallest of the Channel Islands open to the public...
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The first implies it is the smallest of the channel islands AND is open to the public, the second just implies it is the smallest island open to the public.
 
christ on a bike!

Feek's quote:
No, that's wrong. That's saying that it's the smallest of the Channel Islands (it isn't) and that it's open to the public.
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Original quote:
It is the smallest of the Channel
Islands that is open to the public
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It means it is the smallest of the Channel Islands THAT IS ALSO open to the public. That is not the same as being the smallest island (ie the smallest island in this case is not open to the public)
 
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Yes, I read that. Read my post. The reason that meaning is implied is the presence of the comma. Without the comma, that is NOT what it means. "That is" is implied.

Take this sentence:

"It is the smallest island open to the public"

That does not in any way imply it is the smallest island. It is qualified.

That this sentence:

"Is it the smallest island, open to the public, and is bright pink."

That lists three distinct attributes, and does imply it is the smallest island. It's all in the comma - which implies "it is" is repeated in each clause.
 
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I would re-structure the description so that the two comments about size i.e. smallest of the channel islands open to the public and its dimensions are in the same sentence. Likewise, you could then incorporate the two bits of information about location i.e. 3 miles from Guernsey and quiet/tranquil in the second sentence. e.g.

"Herm Island is the smallest of the channel islands open to the public and measures just a mile and a half by a mile wide. It lies three miles from the coast of Guernsey and is a quiet, tranquil location."

Just an idea.
 
csmager said:
Yes, I read that. Read my post. The reason that meaning is implied is the presence of the comma. Without the comma, that is NOT what it means. "That is" is implied.

Take this sentence:

"It is the smallest island open to the public"

That does not in any way imply it is the smallest island. It is qualified.

That this sentence:

"Is it the smallest island, open to the public, and is bright pink."

That lists three distinct attributes, and does imply it is the smallest island. It's all in the comma - which implies "it is" is repeated in each clause.
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Apologies. I'm off sick atm so I blame my monged faculties.

"It is the smallest island open to the public"

That sentence is missing the restrictive clause 'that'. I don't know if that is grammatically allowable or not. I suspect not.
 
Feek said:
Herm Island is three miles from the coast of Guernsey and measures just a mile and a half long by half a mile wide. It is the smallest of the Channel
Islands that is open to the public and is a quiet, tranquil location.
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Wouldn't it be better to say "Herm Island is three miles off the coast of Guernsey"? If you say something is 'off' something you imply that it is disconnected from it (as Herm Island is with the sea obviously), whereas using 'from' sounds better when you are referring to two places you could travel easily between.

For example if I lived in Hamshire, I would say that Southampton was 16 miles from Portsmouth; but I'd say that The Isle of White was 7 miles off the coast of Portsmouth.
 
I'm a bit confused now.

/edit - I typed that before I saw estebanrey's post!
 
"It is the smallest of the publicly-accessible Channel Islands, and rests in a quiet, tranquil location."

IMHO
 
pre1twa said:
Interesting reading. For a native speaker I think it is relaitively clear which of the examples are ok and which are not. For someone learning the language however I can see things like this being a nightmare!
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I bet. I intuitively thought it sounded right - so I searched a bit and found that.

A friend of mine who's pretty multi-lingual tells me that English isn't that difficult technically - we have a lot less complexity than some other languages (e.g. no masculine/feminine nonsense) - but there is huge difficulty in the sheer size of vocabulary.
 
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