quick question about OEM xenon retrofits

[Deleted User 298457]

Its the significance of the issue you have to think about. Of course no road is lovely and flat, especially here in the UK, but most of the time you're not up and down like a yoyo and so most of the time its not a major problem for others. Even when you do hit a bump, its most likely to be momentary.


True, good point. I don't carry heavy loads - bulky yes but not usually heavy enough to pull down the back end of the car. Rarely carry passengers either. Plus I don't really see the difference between some ultra bright halogens badly fitted and a set of well fitted, well adjusted xenons. No-one manually adjusts headlight level when driving with halogens. Maybe play with it occasionally, decide it makes barely any difference then never touch the dial again.

Likely a BMW 3 series estate E91.

I'll look into retrofitting the levelers, as I say if its a length of wire between power feed, sensor and headlight pin then no problem; but if its ECU mods / programming then its a problem. And I still think the rules say they only have to be working if fitted same as the washers.

You are an idiot if you even consider fitting headlights which can't be adjusted because 'roads aren't that bumpy and you won't be carrying weight'.

Morons with badly fitted xenons in the Max Power days permanently looked like they were flashing you.

 

[danlightbulb]

You are an idiot if you even consider fitting headlights which can't be adjusted because 'roads aren't that bumpy and you won't be carrying weight'.

Morons with badly fitted xenons in the Max Power days permanently looked like they were flashing you.

Im not going to fit them if they can't be adjusted don't worry. Im just pointing out that the significance of the issue is fairly small in the grand scheme of things. These days you get some lights that are bright as the sun, its reasonably normal whenever you drive anywhere.

Ive found this wiring diagram from another forum - the pins don't show any means to take a vertical alignment signal so Im wondering how they even work with manual adjustment let alone auto leveling....

This is for the bi-xenons which Im not sure are the ones I will fit - need to check the specs.

Anyway this thread was just meant to be about the legality of it not this specific car's modifications.

 

[teenwolf]

my god just buy one with them factory fitted

 

[Kenai]

No-one manually adjusts headlight level when driving with halogens.

If they don't, they're morons.

 

[danlightbulb]

If they don't, they're morons.

So you adjust your halogens every time you go over a bump?

my god just buy one with them factory fitted

How many times do I have to tell you this, I don't want an Avensis for £6k.

Its not my fault people bought expensive BMWs then went for cheap headlights. Like Sam Becket, Im trying to put right what once went wrong.

 

[Kenai]

So you adjust your halogens every time you go over a bump?

No but that's not what you said, you said people don't adjust them, that they might play with it and 'never touch it again'.

Anyone who never touches the beam adjuster has either literally never driven their car with any sort of load in it, or they're morons.

 

[danlightbulb]

No but that's not what you said, you said people don't adjust them, that they might play with it and 'never touch it again'.

Anyone who never touches the beam adjuster has either literally never driven their car with any sort of load in it, or they're morons.

Id wager most people hardly ever touch that dial.

 

[tom_e]

No but that's not what you said, you said people don't adjust them, that they might play with it and 'never touch it again'.

Anyone who never touches the beam adjuster has either literally never driven their car with any sort of load in it, or they're morons.

I've done 40k+ miles in my car and never touched it. The heaviest thing that goes in my boot is the weekly shop. I imagine that's the same for a large proportion of drivers.

 

[Kenai]

Id wager most people hardly ever touch that dial.

I wouldn't necessarily disagree with that

 

[ShiWarrior]

if you buy a car with Halogen Headlights, do not swap them out and out xenons in, xenons are more complex and "have to" have certain features on the car which yours will NOT have

But there is also LED BULBS, but again do NOT fit these UNLESS they are going into "Projector" type lenses and not "Reflector"

if you havent bought the car yet, make sure you get a top spec car because xenons/LEDs will most likely be part of the trim level

 

[danlightbulb]

if you buy a car with Halogen Headlights, do not swap them out and out xenons in, xenons are more complex and "have to" have certain features on the car which yours will NOT have

But there is also LED BULBS, but again do NOT fit these UNLESS they are going into "Projector" type lenses and not "Reflector"

if you havent bought the car yet, make sure you get a top spec car because xenons/LEDs will most likely be part of the trim level

That's the point of this thread really, I don't think what you've said there is quite correct.

Its true its explicitly an MOT failure to fit xenon or LED bulbs into halogen housings, whether projector or reflector.

I think it isn't an MOT failure to retrofit a complete xenon headlamp unit. And I don't think you have to have washers or auto leveling either, at least, its not an MOT failure not to have them.

 

[Lashout_UK]

It's in the MOT inspection manual handbook.

If a complete headlamp unit has been replaced with a unit that was manufactured with HID or LED light sources, it must not be failed for ‘Light source and lamp not compatible’ but it must meet all other requirements detailed in section 4 of this manual specific to the type fitted at the time of test.

Which entails it matching the OEM configuration, so it'll need washing and levelling systems (if the output is in excess of 2,000 lumens, at least, which is generally par for the course with xenons).

Whether you get picked up on it or not is another question altogether, but I've seen a fair few fall foul of the updated lighting regulations.

 

[ShiWarrior]

thank you, thats basically what i said lol

 

[danlightbulb]

If a complete headlamp unit has been replaced with a unit that was manufactured with HID or LED light sources, it must not be failed for ‘Light source and lamp not compatible’ but it must meet all other requirements detailed in section 4 of this manual specific to the type fitted at the time of test.

Section 4 says this:

Make sure any manual headlamp levelling devices (driver controls) work

Ok, so a manual adjuster must work if fitted.

Vehicles with high intensity discharge (HID) or LED dipped beam headlamps may be fitted with a suspension or headlamp self-levelling system. If these systems have been fitted, they must work.

IF these systems have been fitted, they must work. It does not say the system has to be fitted if you have HIDs.

You must inspect vehicles first used on or after 1 September 2009 equipped with headlamp washers.

If the car is older than 2009, or if headlamp washers have not been fitted, this suggests no need to check anything.



So it seems to me from this that yes, its an auto fail if you retrofit HID/LED bulbs in halogen housings. But if you use a whole OEM HID headlight housing, that should pass.

 

[JonRGV250]

Anyone who never touches the beam adjuster has either literally never driven their car with any sort of load in it, or they're morons.

Almost every car I test has the thumb wheel at 3 or 4.
It’s almost like they don’t want to see where they’re going.

 

[Lashout_UK]

Section 4 says this:


So it seems to me from this that yes, its an auto fail if you retrofit HID/LED bulbs in halogen housings. But if you use a whole OEM HID headlight housing, that should pass.

I think you are actually technically correct in that respect, on reflection, which is the best kind of correct; I just clocked another conversation on a Porsche forum about similar (using OEM xenon unit, manual adjuster, no washer). As you say, not fitted, not tested.

Your mileage might vary depending on who tests it, though – they might get finicky about original specs, in an irrelevant fashion. It used to be the case that it was an outright requirement, and the rules have flip-flopped a few times, but I think some will just advise if a particular feature is missing now, and they think it should have it, rather than fail it.

I'd personally still not do it, though, for the sake of other road users. Sling some decent bulbs in the original units, and save some cash, and then move on.

 

[red eye]

Hi all,

So I know its categorically against the MOT rules to retrofit either xenon or LED bulbs into housings designed for halogens.

But, I think (and want to confirm) that its perfectly legal and not an MOT fail to install a complete OEM xenon headlight unit into a car completely replacing the original halogen unit, EVEN IF auto leveling and headlight washer systems are not installed along with it.

Can anyone confirm thinking is correct?

Thanks

Wash wipe and auto level needs to work on hid 4.1.5 and 4.1.6 of the mot handbook

MOT inspection manual: cars and passenger vehicles - 4. Lamps, reflectors and electrical equipment - Guidance - GOV.UK

Headlamp, position lamps, daytime running lamps, stop lamps, indicators, hazard warning lamps, fog lamps, reversing lamps, lighting ‘tell-tales’, trailer electrical socket, electrical wiring and battery rules and inspection for car and passenger vehicle MOT tests.

www.gov.uk

Edit if it’s not fitted at factory with hid it’s not tested, so you might get away with no washers unless the testers a jobsworth

 

[Deleted User 298457]

Wash wipe and auto level needs to work on hid 4.1.5 and 4.1.6 of the mot handbook

MOT inspection manual: cars and passenger vehicles - 4. Lamps, reflectors and electrical equipment - Guidance - GOV.UK

Headlamp, position lamps, daytime running lamps, stop lamps, indicators, hazard warning lamps, fog lamps, reversing lamps, lighting ‘tell-tales’, trailer electrical socket, electrical wiring and battery rules and inspection for car and passenger vehicle MOT tests.

www.gov.uk

Edit if it’s not fitted at factory with hid it’s not tested, so you might get away with no washers unless the testers a jobsworth

Or doesn't want a **** driving around with incorrectly fitted lights.

 

[red eye]

A lot (most modern) cars with factory fit xenons won’t have a thumb wheel adjuster.
I very much doubt you’d be able use a non xenon car thumb wheel with xenons, but I could be wrong.
But there’s a good chance that the MOT tester won’t check, but I always do.

They should check as they have to zero it when checking beam pattern. But as I have witnessed some don’t until they see the pattern is too low/high

Or doesn't want a **** driving around with incorrectly fitted lights.

agree, but Washers have to be fitted and operational from 2009 and for levelling

“Sometimes it is not easy to determine if the self-levelling systems work. In such cases you should give the benefit of the doubt.” 4.1.5 of the testers handbook.

So as long as the beam alignment is ok and there’s no tow bar a tester can pass and advise. Although I haven’t ever experienced a case where I could’t tell, there’s always been some sort of reference point such as the wall or toolboxes where you can see the beam has moved. In the mot bay you have the beam tester, you can see the beam move on the tester.

 

[Azza]

Can a mod please change username to 'danxenonbulb'