Quick question to all parents...

lttlejoe said:
Are you really a parent?
It's got absolutely nothing to do with whether it's legal or non-emotive risk management...it's to do with taking care of one's child or children and NOT exposing them to any unnecessary danger whether the risks are real or perceived!

Raising children is fraught with risks throughout their lives...leaving very young children unattended in cars in public places for more than a minute or two is simply irresponsible and a risk to which most sensible and responsible parents simply wouldn't expose their children.
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And yet my children are still alive. God alone knows how.

Want me to post pics of my kids to prove I'm a parent? Or will that get someone fretting about posting pictures of ones children on the intermapaedoweb?
 
Leaving a child in a car unsupervised is careless, and could be considered neglect, which could lead to the arrest of the parent/carer.
 
vonhelmet said:
And yet my children are still alive. God alone knows how.

Want me to post pics of my kids to prove I'm a parent? Or will that get someone fretting about posting pictures of ones children on the intermapaedoweb?
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I wonder if behind all this argumentative bravado, you would actually leave your own kids unattended in a public car park for anything other than a very brief length of time, easpecially if they were only 18 months old ?

I agree that some parents can be over-protective and perceive threats which really are so remote with regard to risks but, even if the risk is absolutely minimal, if something does go wrong and very bad does happen to their child, can you imagine how that parent would feel?
Anything that reduces unnecessary risk in the rearing of children should be encouraged and anything that places them at risk should be avoided which includes leaving them unattended in a car in a public car park.

Why would any reasonable parent put their child at any potential or unnecessary risk, no matter how low ?
 
lttlejoe said:
I wonder if behind all this argumentative bravado, you would actually leave your own kids unattended in a public car park for anything other than a very brief length of time, easpecially if they were only 18 months old ?
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My children (near as damn it 18m and 4 1/2) are routinely left in the car alone while my wife pops in somewhere to do something, be that grabbing a couple of things at the shops or whatever. So no, this is not just "argumentative bravado".

littlejoe said:
I agree that some parents can be over-protective and perceive threats which really are so remote with regard to risks but, even if the risk is absolutely minimal, if something does go wrong and very bad does happen to their child, can you imagine how that parent would feel?
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They'd feel bad, sure. But in a purely numbers game sense, those bad things happen so rarely that you have to wonder whether it's worth the stress of fretting about every little thing that might go wrong.

littlejoe said:
Anything that reduces unnecessary risk in the rearing of children should be encouraged and anything that places them at risk should be avoided which includes leaving them unattended in a car in a public car park.

Why would any reasonable parent put their child at any potential or unnecessary risk, no matter how low ?
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Life is a risk. You choose to live in fear of it or you choose to manage it.
 
vonhelmet said:
Pragmatic parents.
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Bad parents.

Whenever we are in the situation where one of our kids falls asleep in the car (which is often for kids) then one of us stays in the car with them. If on our own our children will be woken up and taken with us.

I don't see how any parent who weigh up the risks and leave their child alone in a car even for a few moments. Excuse? You just can't be bothered to deal with a child that has been woken up and will be difficult to deal with.

I witnessed a woman leave two children, one who was probably about six months old and the other about 18 - 24 months in her car when she went into a supermarket. I stayed in my car with our youngest and my wife went in to do a full shop with my eldest.

I timed the woman and she was over 50 minutes in the shop. Her youngest woke about 10 minutes after she left and cried the entire time with her elder child constantly looking around for her mum.

So Pragmatic parent...yes, practical to her own selfish needs. I guess your kids are just as big an inconvenience to you as well. :rolleyes:
 
vonhelmet said:
My children (near as damn it 18m and 4 1/2) are routinely left in the car alone while my wife pops in somewhere to do something, be that grabbing a couple of things at the shops or whatever. So no, this is not just "argumentative bravado".

They'd feel bad, sure. But in a purely numbers game sense, those bad things happen so rarely that you have to wonder whether it's worth the stress of fretting about every little thing that might go wrong.

Life is a risk. You choose to live in fear of it or you choose to manage it.
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WOW...just wow!

Life is a risk? Nice of you to take risks with an 18 month olds life.

Why would you take any risks with your children? Why can't you just wake the child or wait in the car until they wake?

"You choose to live in fear of it or you choose to manage it" :rolleyes: Sounds like you have been to too many confidence building seminars.

It's nothing to do with stress and fear. It's about you treating your kids as an inconvenience to your busy lives.

I cringe at your responses as you actually try to justify your irresponsible and lazy decisions.

Why don't you just leave them at home next time. Very unlikely anything would happen to them percentage wise. :rolleyes:
 
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coopersim said:
Just put the baby in the boot where it will be safe and go in and help your wife with the shop, that way you will get it done twice as fast, and the baby will be left alone for half the time... :rolleyes:
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How is the baby left alone for half the time? The responsible parent would be with the child the whole time. So unless you are so fast at shopping that you actually reverse time then your comment is a big fat FAIL! :rolleyes:
 
bloodline76 said:
That is how i would describe vonhelmets attitude to parenting.

Vonhelmet "Wait there dear I forgot something in the car"

Mrs vonhelmet "What the kids?"

vonhelmet "No....I left some loose change in the ash tray. The kids...you are so funny dear"

Mrs vonhelmet "Yeah what was I thinking hahaha"
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Lucky I don't have any little vonhelmets to look after then :D
 
vonhelmet said:
Life is a risk. You choose to live in fear of it or you choose to manage it.
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I'm sorry, but quotes from motivational posters are not effective parenting techniques :rolleyes:

Young children should not be left on their own in a car if you cannot see the car. Simple as.

You have an 18 month child - that child is totally reliant on you for every aspect of their survival. Your 4 year old is not capable of taking over that role while you are not there. That is your job, and passing it of as "managing fear" is just being lazy and irresponsible.

It doesn't matter how unlikely any possible scenario is where your child/ren could come to harm, there is no point where a parent should not be at the beck and call of an 18 month old if they happen to need you.
 
bloodline76 said:
Bad parents.

Whenever we are in the situation where one of our kids falls asleep in the car (which is often for kids) then one of us stays in the car with them. If on our own our children will be woken up and taken with us.

I don't see how any parent who weigh up the risks and leave their child alone in a car even for a few moments. Excuse? You just can't be bothered to deal with a child that has been woken up and will be difficult to deal with.

I witnessed a woman leave two children, one who was probably about six months old and the other about 18 - 24 months in her car when she went into a supermarket. I stayed in my car with our youngest and my wife went in to do a full shop with my eldest.

I timed the woman and she was over 50 minutes in the shop. Her youngest woke about 10 minutes after she left and cried the entire time with her elder child constantly looking around for her mum.

So Pragmatic parent...yes, practical to her own selfish needs. I guess your kids are just as big an inconvenience to you as well. :rolleyes:
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Why would I defend those actions? I'v not once advocated leaving children for extended periods of tine. 50m is too long. 10m? Probably not. Less than 10m? Almost certainly not. I wouldn't leave an 18 month old for long at all unless it was asleep. A 5 year old? Longer. A 12 year old? Longer still, but obviously by then they could be expected to behave in the shop and might actually be useful.

bloodline76 said:
WOW...just wow!

Life is a risk? Nice of you to take risks with an 18 month olds life.

Why would you take any risks with your children? Why can't you just wake the child or wait in the car until they wake?

"You choose to live in fear of it or you choose to manage it" :rolleyes: Sounds like you have been to too many confidence building seminars.

It's nothing to do with stress and fear. It's about you treating your kids as an inconvenience to your busy lives.

I cringe at your responses as you actually try to justify your irresponsible and lazy decisions.

Why don't you just leave them at home next time. Very unlikely anything would happen to them percentage wise. :rolleyes:
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Life is full of risks, but most can be ignored or managed. To say otherwise is foolish. And it's not about kids being an inconvenience, don't try to ad hominem me. The point is that for the sake of getting a job done quickly it's often easier to keep kids out of the way.

As for leaving kids at home, don't talk soft. Kids can get into enough trouble at home while you're right there with them.

bloodline76 said:
That is how i would describe vonhelmets attitude to parenting.

Vonhelmet "Wait there dear I forgot something in the car"

Mrs vonhelmet "What the kids?"

vonhelmet "No....I left some loose change in the ash tray. The kids...you are so funny dear"

Mrs vonhelmet "Yeah what was I thinking hahaha"
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Give it a rest. If there's two of us one could stay with the kids or we could take them in as then you have someone to get the job done and someone on riot control.
 
shorttricky said:
I'm sorry, but quotes from motivational posters are not effective parenting techniques :rolleyes:
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Ok, it was a big soundbyte-y, but the point stands. Life is full of risks, but normal people assess those risks and then ignore the small ones, avoid the large ones and manage those that they can.

Got central heating? Your boiler might explode.
Got electricity? It could short out and burn your house down.
Got internal plumbing? It could burst and flood your house.
Got a car? The brakes could fail.
Ever get the train or bus? It could crash.
Fly on a plane? Terrorists could fly it into a building.
Get ill and take medicine? Side effects could kill you.
Set foot outside? You could be mugged, raped or murderex. Maybe all three.
A plane could fall on your head.
A meteor could cave your skull in.
Hell, you could trip up putting your trousers on and bang your head. Better not get dressed - much too risky.

shorttricky said:
Young children should not be left on their own in a car if you cannot see the car. Simple as.

You have an 18 month child - that child is totally reliant on you for every aspect of their survival. Your 4 year old is not capable of taking over that role while you are not there. That is your job, and passing it of as "managing fear" is just being lazy and irresponsible.

It doesn't matter how unlikely any possible scenario is where your child/ren could come to harm, there is no point where a parent should not be at the beck and call of an 18 month old if they happen to need you.
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The chances of anything remotely serious happening while an 18 month old is alone for 10 minutes are tiny. At worst, the child does a poo and wails about it. Disaster.
 
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vonhelmet said:
Life is full of risks, but most can be ignored or managed. To say otherwise is foolish. And it's not about kids being an inconvenience, don't try to ad hominem me. The point is that for the sake of getting a job done quickly it's often easier to keep kids out of the way.

As for leaving kids at home, don't talk soft. Kids can get into enough trouble at home while you're right there with them.
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You said that it is not about the kids being an inconvenience then you say it's about getting the job done quickly. Which you are saying that if you had to take the kids it would slow you down. Doesn't that make them an inconvenience?

Easier and quicker are the main words that stand out from your posts.

Even though it is a very small risk, it is an unnecessary risk.

The point of leaving them at home was sarcasm. I forgot the :rolleyes:

As for when someone mentioned about people never leaving their kids in the car at a petrol station and calling them liars. Then sorry but you are wrong. I have never left my child in the car at a petrol station. I just queue for the pump that enables you to pay with your card at the pump.

I know it's an inconvenience for some but I don't believe in the unnecessary risk despite how low that risk is.

On another note my work colleague was left in a car as a child and the hand break didn't hold and it ran down the road. No harm done to him but it could have been worse.
 
Morba said:
And its ok to leave a child who is distressed for 10 mins, all alone with random people looking at them through the window?
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It does sounds like he has not adapted to being a father properly. He is still putting himself first. All trips have to be planned around the children when they can not fend for themselves.

Every trip with the kids is like a camping trip compared to my single days.
 
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