'Radical' prison changes.

Simi said:
Is that experience enough?
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Excellent experience tbh - sorry I didn't know and I take back my comment, you still seem to lack imagination though ;) .

You will have seen in your time the huge amount of lads inside who can't read or write, can easily get access to drugs and you will know the prison system just doesn't have the resources to do proper searches at visiting time (except in the A cat's) and certainly most don't have the resources to do proper drug re-hab (hence the reason you requested a transfer).

My point is that prisons need MORE RESOURCES to help lads off drugs and this should be in ALL prisons - not just specialist places.

Add to the rehab classes to teach lads to read and write and then something useful like plumbing or bricklaying and you can turn out the gate better people than you take in.
 
RDM said:
Read the post again. Your point B is incorrect and isn't actually what he stated.
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Oh yea .. well - on reading again what he is saying .. no-one ever in the history on mankind has suggested hiring criminals over non-criminals with all other factors equal. So why has he even bothered saying it at all? What's it got to do with anything?

That's like me saying

'Hey RDM - No-one would consider hiring dinosaurs to flip burgers by the way. Hahaha you're a bad businessman'. I mean - no-one has ever suggested this concept and he uses it as some kind of 'shows how much you know Britboy' post. Just - basically - wierd.

I mean .. seriously? Why say something that is so totally irrelevent to the discussion? What's the point? I'll read his posts slower next time -- I presumed he'd be talking about what everyone else was :/
 
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britboy4321 said:
That's like me saying

'Hey RDM - No-one would consider hiring dinosaurs to flip burgers by the way. Hahaha you're a bad businessman'
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Hell yes, I would hire dinosaurs to flip burgers if they were capable of said action. :cool: :D

And what I said has everything to do with anything that has been said in this thread. :rolleyes:
 
britboy4321 said:
Oh yea .. well - on reading again what he is saying .. no-one ever in the history on mankind has suggested hiring criminals over non-criminals with all other factors equal. So why has he even bothered saying it at all? What's it got to do with anything?
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He didn't however say what you said he did. You once again misrepresented something to mean something you want it to. You do it a lot and it makes it pointless having a debate with you. The next step is to normally say something stupid as if it actually makes a point.

britboy4321 said:
That's like me saying

'Hey RDM - No-one would consider hiring dinosaurs to flip burgers by the way. Hahaha you're a bad businessman'
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And there it is...

Sadly you are now even getting boring and predictable. At least when you where ly....er explaining about ant farms it was almost entertaining.


britboy4321 said:
I mean .. seriously? Why say something that is so totally irrelevent to the discussion? I'll read his posts slower next time -- I presumed he'd be talking about what everyone else was :/
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Is this what counts as an admission of a mistake from you? Vaguely admit you did something wrong and then try and blame it on someone else...
 
RDM said:
He didn't however say what you said he did. You once again misrepresented something to mean something you want it to. You do it a lot and it makes it pointless having a debate with you. The next step is to normally say something stupid as if it actually makes a point.



And there it is...

Sadly you are now even getting boring and predictable. At least when you where ly....er explaining about ant farms it was almost entertaining.




Is this what counts as an admission of a mistake from you? Vaguely admit you did something wrong and then try and blame it on someone else...
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Yea my first reply to him was a mistake I misread his second sentence.

The reason I misread is I was skim-reading and I presumed he was saying something pertinent to the discussion. My bad.

The ant farm thing was true but this forum is full of cynics (most notably tefal, with him its crazy). Like when I got the first liquid cooled 5970 in the country and wrote a thread .. 100% of replies were 'BS', 'LIAR' etc etc. Then I posted a picture and everyone went dead silent. Being a cynic is a bad thing, by the way. I blame photoshop for half of it.
 
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britboy4321 said:
Yea my first reply to him was a mistake I misread his second sentence.

The reason I misread is I was skim-reading and I presumed he was saying something pertinent to the discussion. My bad.
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How can you skim read something then go to quote and take out the rest of sentance and still not realise what I was actually saying. :confused: :rolleyes:

Oh and you must be a bit slow or need to learn how to read yourself if it took you a grand total of 3 minutes to read a few lines AND make a pathetic reply.

lolbritboy
 
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Blackhawk47 said:
How can you skim read something then go to quote and take out the rest of sentance and still not realise what I was actually saying. :confused: :rolleyes:

Oh and you must be a bit slow or need to learn how to read yourself if it took you a grand total of 3 minutes to read a few lines AND make a pathetic reply.

lolbritboy
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er .. what? Where does it say the exact I started reading and whether that's the only think I was doing?

D- See me after school - must try harder. As trolling goes, this was a rubbish effort. Go show your mum, see what she has to say ... honestly .. kids these days .. all so lazy ..
 
Moley said:
Excellent experience tbh - sorry I didn't know and I take back my comment, you still seem to lack imagination though ;) .

You will have seen in your time the huge amount of lads inside who can't read or write, can easily get access to drugs and you will know the prison system just doesn't have the resources to do proper searches at visiting time (except in the A cat's) and certainly most don't have the resources to do proper drug re-hab (hence the reason you requested a transfer).

My point is that prisons need MORE RESOURCES to help lads off drugs and this should be in ALL prisons - not just specialist places.

Add to the rehab classes to teach lads to read and write and then something useful like plumbing or bricklaying and you can turn out the gate better people than you take in.
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I totally agree that more resources are needed, I've never been in A cat, only B and C and both were a joke security wise during visits, I managed to keep a healthy drug habit active during my stay in her Majesty's hotels and I'm no tough guy. All I'm saying is that point 2 won't work because if people don't want to get off drugs then they won't, even if they can't get drugs in prison the addiction is still there and treatment for it can't be forced.
If it could then the world would be a much better place.

As for record stigma, mine doesn't affect me at all anymore, the only time it did was when I worked at a school as their IT tech, they did a full check (as it's a school) and after I'd been there for 3 months the check came back (full disclosure) which had all the petty crap I'd done in the past on it, which was mainly theft and a drugs conviction. However I explained that as they could see it was a long time ago and I was a different man now, they agreed and kept me on anyway. I did leave for a better job after a year but still, that was the only time it has slightly affected a job.

Of course if I had been a sex offender then I would have been insta-fired and rightly so (in my opinion).
 
britboy4321 said:
D- See me after school - must try harder. As trolling goes, this was a rubbish effort. Go show your mum, see what she has to say ... honestly .. kids these days .. all so lazy ..
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You can **** right off.

I've been working since I was 16 and I work hard.

Because of that I am doing pretty good for someone who is 19.
 
Blackhawk47 said:
You can **** right off.

I've been working since I was 16 and I work hard.

Because of that I am doing pretty good for someone who is 19.
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Cool. 3 years work? 19? Just GCSEs? I'd say 'pretty good' would mean to me with those stats .. er .. > 20K a year. Not bad if you are ... not bad at all ..
 
What about this then:

You work as part of a team of four. At the end of the working day you take a shower in the communal washrooms.

You have no previous convictions, worked all your life, paid your taxes never been involved in substance abuse. One of the workers has just been released from prison after sexually abusing children. Another served several sentences for house breaking, mugging, peddling drugs to minors etc. The third, again just released from prison following convictions for male rape and violence.

Some (trendy lefty) social worker has worked with the three ex-cons and has convinced the parole board that they are now fit to take their places in society.

Would you, before showering: share your holiday snaps with the team showing your children aged two and three having a bath together? Would you hang your clothes on a hook in the shower room with your house keys in the outside pocket? And more importantly would you bend down and pick up the soap in the shower?

Bring back hanging, nail some sense into them I say! I’d even alter sentences for murder, rape, child abuse etc. (double parking and drivers who sound their horn outside peoples' houses who are too lazy to knock on the door would NOT be exempt either) previous jail term sentences would be quashed and replaced with hanging. So anyone who is completing his sentence would have it overturned, he’d/she’d be summoned to the execution room and hanged.

That would leave plenty of empty cells for Ken Clarke to think about and he wouldn’t have to worry about the expense either. The pension’s minister should have a field day too, none of the hanged would be able to draw their state pension, that should save a few million.
 
I can't work out if that's sarcastic or not.

I do not know if it works in America or not, I just thought the idea of getting prisoners working whilst serving the sentence was a good idea.

I then just simply stated I saw them working whilst in the USA.
 
Belly said:
What about this then:
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In America they tried the death penalty (currently postponed I believe) and it ended up costing more than just keeping someone banged up for 20 years. Execution is surprisingly expensive.

You've also got a slight problem when you hang someone and then 5 years later they find through new DNA technology there is no way they could have possibly done the crime. It leaves a bad feeling with all involved, and opens the door for family litigation.

Your shower example - well, every time I go to the gym I have no idea of the personal backgrounds of anyone there .. but I don't 'not shower and go home smelly' in case I'm rodgered and my car is stolen!!
 
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Belly said:
Snipped for space.

Bring back hanging, nail some sense into them I say! I’d even alter sentences for murder, rape, child abuse etc. (double parking and drivers who sound their horn outside peoples' houses who are too lazy to knock on the door would NOT be exempt either) previous jail term sentences would be quashed and replaced with hanging. So anyone who is completing his sentence would have it overturned, he’d/she’d be summoned to the execution room and hanged.

That would leave plenty of empty cells for Ken Clarke to think about and he wouldn’t have to worry about the expense either. The pension’s minister should have a field day too, none of the hanged would be able to draw their state pension, that should save a few million.
Click to expand...

In your example if we look beyond the appeal to emotion then we're dealing with a simple question of "do you trust the parole board or not?". In the absence of any greater knowledge about the risk of reoffending from prisoners I suppose I'd have to trust them. It might be understandable not to trust because we, as humans, are at times fallible and irrational but sometimes you have to take things on trust as being the best available information.

Hanging (or indeed any form of capital punishment) hasn't got a proven deterrent effect that I've seen so we're not talking about anything other than vengeance here and it's expensive to boot.

And on an unrelated note when did "lol(posters name here)" become the standard response to anything people disagree with? It's another one of those memes that is being beaten to death.
 
The problem is the system needlessly criminalizing (especially young) people. Decisions like moving Cannabis from class C to class B for example, isn't helping. That's enough in certain cases to move a smoker from probation to a prison sentence. There are plenty of other victimless crimes that result in a custodial sentence. It is a significant problem when the government deliberately ignores specialist advice on the matter, but that is another debate for another time.

The problem isn't largely to do with how to deal with prisoners, it's the criteria for sending them to the slammer. Although it is lenient in many cases, it is also far too stern in others.

The 'chain gang' system in America can lead to significant human rights abuses, so it's not an ideal solution at all - especially when the justice system Stateside is notoriously poor at correctly passing judgement on the accused.

The level of barbarism displayed in this thread is disappointing and a clear look into why we will never really have an adequate, logical and sensible justice system in place even as a first world society.
 
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