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RAM not working as it should??

Discussion in 'Memory' started by carsyboy, Apr 26, 2018.

  1. carsyboy

    Associate

    Joined: Apr 21, 2018

    Posts: 12

    hello

    long winded post but here goes. i currently use this motherboard https://www.overclockers.co.uk/msi-...ocket-am4-ddr4-atx-motherboard-mb-321-ms.html

    my son uses this board https://www.overclockers.co.uk/msi-...ocket-am4-ddr4-atx-motherboard-mb-322-ms.html

    we have both been using 8gb ddr4 3200 ram https://www.overclockers.co.uk/team...nel-kit-black-red-tdprd48g3200-my-073-tg.html

    for almost a year and countless bios updates on both boards we have never managed to get the ram to run above the default 2133 speeds.

    on tuesday my son purchased this ram https://www.overclockers.co.uk/team...al-channel-kit-rgb-white-tf2d4-my-08n-tg.html

    straight out the box it defaulted to 3200 and is running perfectly.

    however after 6 hours constantly trying the 4 x 4gb sticks of the 3200 ram will not post on 3 seperate boards ( 2 mentioned and a gigabyte ga-ab350m at anything above 2133 ) above 2133 default settings.

    is anyone able to offer me any suggestions as to what i should try next to at least get close to what the ram should be running at please.

    tried the usual mem checks etc and no problems with the ram whatsoever and all 4 work fine on a mates intel board.

    its about 11 months since they were purchased so doubt i will be able to get a refund and TBH i cant be bothered with the hassle of returning items for them to check them and say no problem when their clearly is somewhere

    any help isgreatly appreciated

    TIA
     
  2. Pocah

    Hitman

    Joined: Jul 11, 2017

    Posts: 583

    Although they advertise various memory speeds, it's not actually guaranteed to work in your system. All settings above default are not only running the RAM faster they are also overclocking the rest of your PC. The XMP settings on the first lot you bought are more aggressive than the second lot. It could well be that you are just pushing your system too far. Question is, did you try manually overclocking instead of using the XMP profile for the memory? This is standard practice if your memory doesn't work. Even if you fail and have to run it at 2133Mhz you can set the timing very aggressively to achieve pretty much the same performance as 3200Mhz.
     
  3. carsyboy

    Associate

    Joined: Apr 21, 2018

    Posts: 12

    yeah i have set it manually as well ( 16/16/16/16/36 ) but no matter what it always defaults to 2133.

    on a side note i can now get any combo of the 4 x 4gb sticks to work at 3200 now the problem i have is when all 4 sticks are running together.

    apart from the timings i mentioned in the first sentence i have left all other settings on auto is there anything else i should be looking at or are those settings incorrect or better alternatives???

    TIA
     
  4. Pocah

    Hitman

    Joined: Jul 11, 2017

    Posts: 583

    When you say it defaults to 2133 what exactly do you mean? Unless you select the XMP profile in the RAM configuration it WILL default to 2133. The XMP sets voltage, frequency and timing. If the XMP doesn't work hen you have to manually enter all of those settings and then reduce the frequency until it works. If the memory runs happily at a reduced frequency then you may also reduce the timing and or voltage. So say it only runs at 2133, then you may be able to adjust the timing on the RAM to 14 14 14 32. I mean you have to fiddle about and it takes a while. XMP makes it easy but it's not guaranteed to work, and invariably doen't produce the best results.
     
  5. carsyboy

    Associate

    Joined: Apr 21, 2018

    Posts: 12

    what i was meaning if i clear the cmos to defaults the ram runs fine at 2133. ANY other tweaking whether its XMP or manually inputting timings the pc will not boot and power cycle a few times and revert to the default of 2133. doesnt matter if i try any combination of timing settings it will only ever boot at 2133. i cant even get 2400 to load into windows with 4 sticks of ram installed
     
  6. Pocah

    Hitman

    Joined: Jul 11, 2017

    Posts: 583

    OK so you do know what you are doing, sorry if I was patronising, I had to check!
    That's poor! I would have expected it to run at better than that. However, I suspect if you return it they will probably say that it's your system(s). I would go for reducing the timing instead since it's almost as good as increasing the frequency. So leave it at 2133 and try setting it to 1.35V and 16-16-16-36. If that works then keep on reducing the timing until it stops working. Try 14 14 14 34 and so on. Just keep going until it stops working. When it stops working pop it back up to the last one that works. Then do the same thing with the voltage, reducing it as much as you can.
     
  7. Jamin280672

    Gangster

    Joined: Feb 12, 2014

    Posts: 476

    Location: Halesowen

    Same board I had until a week ago, loved every min of it, one thing to note is when raising your RAM speed above 2133mhz, change the CPU SoC voltage / CPU NB Voltage to 1.100v this is basically the memory controller and helps a lot, also try the memory try it function, try 2933mhz first of all with the closest timings to your stock timings as possible, 2933mhz 16,16,16,36 should be in that list, also on those MSI motherboards, set memory voltage to 1.36v, just one final thing, try 2 sticks only to start with, 4 sticks are a lot harder for the CPU to handle than 2, but you must also make sure when using 2, they are in the 2nd and 4th slots from the CPU, those are to be populated first.

    Just one final question from me, was your ram on the QVL, the first edition RyZens and boards were very picky about RAM and the chips used to build that ram, you can download Typhoon burner for free and scan the ram slots to find out all the details about your particular ram.
     
  8. 4K8KW10

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Sep 2, 2017

    Posts: 1,994

    Location: Hesse, Germany

    Hi,

    The problem is that for some odd reason that memory is stated for use with Intel Skylake systems only.
    The one purchased by your son, has Ryzen compatibility included.

    If there is something very specific in the modules themselves, you will never be able to get around it with the current motherboard and processor.
     
  9. carsyboy

    Associate

    Joined: Apr 21, 2018

    Posts: 12

    when we phoned up to double check was told it was fine and as i said when only 2 sticks are in fires up at 3200 no problems. no matter what i cant get it past 2133
     
  10. opethdisciple

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 18, 2010

    Posts: 16,263

    Location: London

    I feel your pain mate. I have epic issues with my ram on Ryzen too.

    From my understanding it's hard enough trying to achieve things with 2 sticks and even harder with 4.

    Even tho I have 8 Pack B-Die ram advertised as being the best for Ryzen compatibility I am not able to run at 3200MHz and have settled for a strap just below at 3133MHz.

    Try setting the DOCP and then changing the frequency to one step down.

    ---

    Another thing I've noticed is all those mobo are X370. Mine is an X370 and I am having issues.

    It might be the fact you and me might have netter luck with an x470 board.
     
  11. prjwebb

    Hitman

    Joined: Jun 29, 2016

    Posts: 634

    Have you tried going higher? I know there was speculation about memory 'holes' on ryzen.
     
  12. 0h_no_not_again

    Associate

    Joined: Jun 29, 2016

    Posts: 98

    Certainly possible.

    If the memory isn't correctly terminated (ProcODT) matching with board trace impedance, you can get reflected edges aligning with your real data signals at particulary frequencies. This can cause occasional errors on certain bit patterns.

    Considering the memory issues that Ryzen / X370 has had, it stands to reason the IMCs are not being properly setup, and hence signal integrity (like reflections) might not be optimal.


    Regarding X370 vs. X470 having different performance:
    I gather DDR4 address and control signals (i.e. not data signals) are terminated by external resistors on the board, so the selection of these will have an impact on your achievable memory speeds. Also note that changing the IO voltage for the DDR changes the required termination resistor size...
    Need to confirm this for Ryzen, mind.

    Most likely difference between X370 and X470 is that the signal routing and return paths (gnd planes) are better, leading to better SI and higher possible rates.

    You might find mobo manufacturers were given a max spec of 3200 for the RAM, and they did their design to meet that spec....
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018 at 12:34 PM
  13. opethdisciple

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 18, 2010

    Posts: 16,263

    Location: London

    I have. 8pack says in the memory thread that 3333MHz is easy to achieve. Just set the DOCP profile and change the strap. I tried that and it isn't stable. Even with 1.4v and ProcODT set all the way up 68.8Ohms.

    This was with the previous ram mind you that was sent back. Haven't tried it with this new set.

    Guess I could try it tonight. No harm in it. But I'm not holding my breath.

    I think the limiting factor is the mobo.