You failed when not sorting out salary the off. I would never attend a interview without having salary nailed down to a acceptable 3.5k range. Your time is just as important as some jumped up HR bod.
Ask to see the interview report, if they fail to deliver threaten them with legal action
Ask to see the interview report, if they fail to deliver threaten them with legal action
....a week after I was informed that I was unsuccessful and that they have a policy "not to provide feedback". I accept that businesses can't give feedback to every person that comes in for an interview but we aren't talking about an entry level job, this is for a manager of a fulfilment centre role.
To be told "sorry, you didn't get it kthnxbye" really ****** me off. I asked to set up a call with the hiring manager so that I can understand where I went wrong (particularly as I exceeded all the requirements for the role and felt that I did well in the interviews) but have not received a reply.
Why do employers do this ****? I've invested 6hrs of my time over 5 different interviews, worked around your diary because you can't read a simple email and get nothing in the way to better myself in the next interview
They are probably a 'machine' and simply interview a load of people and don't have time to get the senior managers to gather feedback for the scores of candidates they may interview.
I always give feedback for candidates, it's sometimes not passed on by the agencies, sometimes not, however I only recruit maybe 3-5 people a year.. so it's easy to dedicate the time to being as professional as I can.
You failed when not sorting out salary the off. I would never attend a interview without having salary nailed down to a acceptable 3.5k range. Your time is just as important as some jumped up HR bod.
Ask to see the interview report, if they fail to deliver threaten them with legal action
I always get the salary expectations agreed before doing any interviews, in the first call with a recruiter. Not worth wasting either party's time if salaries are misaligned.
Soldato
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I usually go for a different approach - but I’m probably in a different situation.
I’ll demonstrate my competency for the job and my personality first to get them onboard, so that I’ve got more bartering power for any salary negotiations
When I say expectations....I say "it needs to be in the ballpark of X".
The actual package negotiation comes later when I know the details of the job!
No point wasting time on interviews if they don't have the budget to make it worthwhile.
Soldato
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- Hampshire
Yeah I understand that, hence the point about different situation
I’ll still attend interviews because it’s good networking and experience
I always look to validate salary expectations up front now (if a recruiter approaches me) to avoid wasting time. The idea of going to interviews for jobs that are unsuitable doesn't really appeal to me, arranging time off work etc (although less of an issue nowadays with more interviews happening remotely). Working styles (days in the office) is another one I think will become more of a knockout question too, it used to be the case that anything more than 1 day a week WFH would be considered a bonus, but I think we will increasingly (in certain roles) see candidates refusing to entertain any role that requires their physical presence 50%+ of the time.
Essentially "where is the job located [percentage not at home]?" and "[approximately] how much does it pay [for how long]?" are the two generic questions I always need to know the answer to regardless of what the job is. Failing to provide that info up front just slows things down a bit.
Essentially "where is the job located [percentage not at home]?" and "[approximately] how much does it pay [for how long]?" are the two generic questions I always need to know the answer to regardless of what the job is. Failing to provide that info up front just slows things down a bit.
So....
I applied for a senior leadership role within Amazon, after seeing a job advert on LinkedIn. After an initial candidate sift, I was invited to a video call with the hiring manager. This lasted about an hour as an initial interview and went really well.
A week or so later, HR invited me to an interview panel of 4x 45 minute interviews with a variety of other leaders including the hiring manager. They asked for my availability to which I responded with 3 out of 5 days in the next 2 weeks.... of course, they chose the 1 day I wasn't technically available but I reorganised my eye test and accepted (causing me a delay in 3+ weeks for cancelling).
As a site leader, I had to reorganise my diary and "work from home" to facilitate the interview panel but took it on the chin as it was a good opportunity.
Fast forward to last week where I went through the interview panel. I'm not one to complain but the schedule left no time between interviews and one of the slots was cancelled within 5 minutes of the start time:
09:00 - 09:45
10:00 - 10:45
11:00 - 11:45 (cancelled and rescheduled at the last minute)
12:00 - 12:45
13:00 - 13:45
14:00 - 14:45 (this was the rescheduled slot)
This meant I was sitting at home in a suit and tie for the better part of a day, with no opportunity for lunch and the thing which annoyed me the most was the rescheduled slot. Anyway... I did the 4 interviews and felt like they went particularly well. The final interview was with HR who I asked about salary to be told that they couldn't give that information out until the offer stage
....a week after I was informed that I was unsuccessful and that they have a policy "not to provide feedback". I accept that businesses can't give feedback to every person that comes in for an interview but we aren't talking about an entry level job, this is for a manager of a fulfilment centre role.
To be told "sorry, you didn't get it kthnxbye" really ****** me off. I asked to set up a call with the hiring manager so that I can understand where I went wrong (particularly as I exceeded all the requirements for the role and felt that I did well in the interviews) but have not received a reply.
Why do employers do this ****? I've invested 6hrs of my time over 5 different interviews, worked around your diary because you can't read a simple email and get nothing in the way to better myself in the next interview
Had a similar experience! Had my virtual interview loop last week all packed into one day! 5 interviews but I had some breaks in between.
Sadly I didn’t get the job, even though I thought on the whole that it went quite well. The final interviewer I was not impressed with at all for a few reasons which I won’t bother going into here. Like you also experienced, I was also told that there was no feedback…
What sort of prep did you do for the loop? Without multiple solid examples that you can speak about with *lots* of detail that tie back to the Leadership Principles, you won't make it through.
This guy has a lot of very useful tips: Dan Croitor - YouTube
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Interviews these days are an absolute joke. You have to be so above and beyond what they are asking for that you need you know much more than just the role you are applying for.
The best way in my option is to get it in your head that they need you more than you need them. This will pass over an attitude that is confident and capable, you know the job role better than they do if you are the perfect candidate.
This of course doesn't apply to people changing careers or job roles completely but what you do is get your foot in the door by doing you research and showing capability as a person.
People also need to take it easy and relax for a bit. Why worry about the fact you have had to rearrange your life a bit to do the interview, so what if you are sat in a suit all day and haven't eaten for a few hours. So what if you don't get feedback. If you don't get the job you pick yourself up, dust yourself off and get in with the next one. If you want it enough you'll get it and if you go into an interview already sour about the fact you have had to rearrange one day in all the days you are alive on the earth then you are in the wrong frame of mind from the start.
People are so easily triggered these days. Get used to the fact that you are just another face in hundreds of other candidates these people see every week. Make them remember you for the right reasons and you'll at least stand a chance.
The best way in my option is to get it in your head that they need you more than you need them. This will pass over an attitude that is confident and capable, you know the job role better than they do if you are the perfect candidate.
This of course doesn't apply to people changing careers or job roles completely but what you do is get your foot in the door by doing you research and showing capability as a person.
People also need to take it easy and relax for a bit. Why worry about the fact you have had to rearrange your life a bit to do the interview, so what if you are sat in a suit all day and haven't eaten for a few hours. So what if you don't get feedback. If you don't get the job you pick yourself up, dust yourself off and get in with the next one. If you want it enough you'll get it and if you go into an interview already sour about the fact you have had to rearrange one day in all the days you are alive on the earth then you are in the wrong frame of mind from the start.
People are so easily triggered these days. Get used to the fact that you are just another face in hundreds of other candidates these people see every week. Make them remember you for the right reasons and you'll at least stand a chance.
Prepped like I’ve never prepped before - covered all the videos and had 20+ examples which I refined extensively all focused on the leadership principles.
Did you use the STAR format to deliver your answers?
Agreed. Much better off just living off of benefits instead.
I'm not sure that's the answer. I learned a new skill and went self employed. Best decision I made in my life
A former colleague who joined Amazon had an 8 stage interview process. Ironically she originally applied on a whim and was a bit unsure if she really wanted the job, but it was good money. I guess they have a lot of applicants so really want to whittle them down.
I actually don't mind the idea of long interview processes (in terms of actual time not duration). To me with short processes it's kind of a crazy ratio of amount of time spent deciding to hire someone compared to the amount of time they will work for you. I mean lets say you do a 20min phonecall and a 1hr F2F interview. Is that really enough time to figure out if they are the right fit, if they have the right skills etc?
Then again, there's an argument that you can run a longer process and still not really get beneath the surface. That you'll only ever really find out how good someone is when they start working, meaning there's little point wasting a lot of time up front. So if you do have a longer process, it needs to be well structured with each stage adding value and building greater confidence. You also need to be attracting enough applications that losing a few good candidates along the way to more streamlined processes elsewhere doesn't matter.
I actually don't mind the idea of long interview processes (in terms of actual time not duration). To me with short processes it's kind of a crazy ratio of amount of time spent deciding to hire someone compared to the amount of time they will work for you. I mean lets say you do a 20min phonecall and a 1hr F2F interview. Is that really enough time to figure out if they are the right fit, if they have the right skills etc?
Then again, there's an argument that you can run a longer process and still not really get beneath the surface. That you'll only ever really find out how good someone is when they start working, meaning there's little point wasting a lot of time up front. So if you do have a longer process, it needs to be well structured with each stage adding value and building greater confidence. You also need to be attracting enough applications that losing a few good candidates along the way to more streamlined processes elsewhere doesn't matter.
Unless the CV is complete fantasy you'll know a lot about them from that. You'll know a lot about the person in one interview maybe two. A technical test for jobs that require it. After that I don't what you're going to learn. Other than someone is either persistent or desperate. If someone can spoof you in one interview then they can do it for twenty.
Considering the absolute muppets you see getting hired I think you say its not a fool proof process.
In our place you see people getting hired and promoted who can't do the job. You also see a lot of people leaving or not staying very long. So much for the hiring process.
Considering the absolute muppets you see getting hired I think you say its not a fool proof process.
In our place you see people getting hired and promoted who can't do the job. You also see a lot of people leaving or not staying very long. So much for the hiring process.
A couple of people have pinged me asking for tips about how to pass an Amazon loop, I'm an L6 'bar raiser' in AWS network engineering who does some interviews, so these are my tips;
- Obviously, the first thing you see and hear about when researching tips for an Amazon interview is leadership principles. They are important and the interview is structured around them, but overall understanding them will enable you to answer the questions, so it's always best to learn them. If your starting position is - "Leadership principles are a load of BS, I don't need to know any of that" you probably won't get very far, or do well at Amazon - it's not for everyone.
- Understand the job 'level'. Everything at Amazon is based around levels. L4-5 tends to focus mostly on craft, that is - doing day to day work, writing code, doing actual implementations or fault finding and so on, whatever the day to day work is. When you go for an L6 role or higher, the leadership element is much more relevant. Amazon are not hiring someone who does 'day to day work' at L6 or above, they're looking for someone who can lead, go out and find the problems and not be told what to do all the time. So if applying for L6 or above, look to demonstrate how you actually make decisions around leadership, don't focus on technical craft.
- Some of the questions are very difficult, don't afraid to ask for more time. On my loop I had 8x interviews and I asked for extra time, asked them to repeat questions numerous times - it's fine. Amazon looks for people who go slower, think and give better answers - don't rush through.
- Some of the questions are scenario based; "Tell me about a time you did XYZ". Make sure you focus on the outcome. It's not enough to say you did your job and worked 9am-5pm or whatever. Everything at Amazon is based on impact - so in the answer, make sure you focus on the impact of whatever you did for the customer. "I designed XYZ, and this led to improvements in ABC for the customer" everything at Amazon is customer focused.
- If you do a technical interview, don't be afraid to go really deep. Amazon likes people who dig right down into the heart of something, to figure out how it works, or what the problem is. Amazon hates people who think "Oh it's close enough" or "It looks like it's 10 feet long". They want the person who gets the tape measure and actually measures it, rather than someone who eyeballs it.
- Don't be afraid to reuse scenarios, if you have a really good example of a time you did something awesome and you use it to answer a question in interview 1 - feel free to use it in all the interviews, don't feel like every single answer has to be unique to every interviewer.
- The first thing is, it's really ******* hard. I've got over 20 years experience, worked for Juniper, Cisco, did a bunch of CCIEs and JNCIEs back in the day, most of the ISPs in the UK and a 5 year stint in the games industry (esports) and I honestly thought I was l33t. When I got to Amazon, it's like starting again, I felt like I was just starting out - the whole ecosystem is so utterly enormous, it's like going back to the beginning.
- The first 6x months for me were doing no work - only training, it takes on average around 12 months before you start to feel like you're doing any actual work. For me, my first project was a colossal data centre migration (3-4 thousand routers, and 30-40Tbps of traffic), I had to design the entire thing then run the project, and it was so difficult to be simultaneously learning and trying to deliver at the same time. But it worked - and I learnt so much in the process, it was worth more than gold to me, in terms of knowledge.
- Joining in Covid (end of 2020) was extremely difficult, everybody else is so busy that people tend to just silo and work on their own stuff. Getting help from people in the beginning was very stressful, people have a tendency to just link you an out of date doc you already read, rather than actually give you any help. There is an element of 'sink or swim' and you have to go out and make your own network of people, otherwise you'll feel lost.
- The things I get to work on are the absolute bleeding edge of technology, so in a way - Amazon is paying me way more than just money, they're paying me with knowledge that can't be gotten from anywhere else, because Amazon has to solve problems that nobody else would ever have - due to it's size. From spending a few years or more at Amazon - from a future employment perspective, I'll feel very very strong indeed, certainly far more ahead than I would have been, if I hadn't had gone to Amazon. I think of myself as a stock market commodity - I was worth a certain amount before I joined Amazon, a few years down the line afterwards I'll be worth more.
- Things change very fast here. In 12 months I've had 3x different managers and that's totally normal. There are constant reorgs and restructures, people being moved. It's quite easy to change teams too, or relocate to another office/country if you're L6 or above. If you're the type of person who likes everything to stay the same for years at a time - you'll hate Amazon, I actually like it.
- There's a lot of scope to innovate, if you find a problem - it'll likely involve some sort of home-grown solution, we have lots and lots of patents and in house designed tech, everybody and anybody can innovate and it's generally always funded and supported, several team mates have patents and I have a few ideas.
- I would say - if you want to work at Amazon, treat it like some sort of boot-camp, it's very hard, it's relentless, but if you you can take it for a few years - you'll be significantly elevated, especially if you're involved in the tech side.
- Lastly, Amazon is a machine - treat it like so, it's not an emotional person with a heart of soul, it's an enormous machine, and you'll get back whatever you put into it, but it's certainly not for everyone.