Reasonable Force Self Defence

Jokester · 27 Jul 2009 at 20:50

scorza said:
Why? you reckon they should be promoted for making bad decisions like Cressida Dick?

So police shouldn't invistigate what could have been a serious knife attack and just let him go on his way?

Burnsy2023 · 27 Jul 2009 at 20:52

The Craig said:
So he stabbed a teenager 5 times as "Reasonable defence" ?
A knife isn't used for defence, and the man should be charged (even though the 5 guys probably deserved it, it doesn't make it right).

I agree with this. Going out with a sharp implement isn't defensive. It's offensive and he must have known someone could have got killed. I'm sorry but I don't think that's reasonable, especially when his life wasn't in immediate danger.

manic111 · 27 Jul 2009 at 20:52

Reasonable force is enough force to stop whatever is happening, without going beyond what you need to do. If for example this guy needed to stab somebody once to stop him vandalising the van, then stabbing him once is reasonable force. Stabbing him five times is not.

^TANK^ · 27 Jul 2009 at 20:52

Self defense to be honest, good on him!

Tefal · 27 Jul 2009 at 20:53

The Craig said:
So he stabbed a teenager 5 times as "Reasonable defence" ?
A knife isn't used for defence, and the man should be charged (even though the 5 guys probably deserved it, it doesn't make it right).

and what if he had done nothing and his son had died from head injuries?

Or should he have just tried to take on 5 guys barehanded and wound up in hospital like his son or dead?

Most people aren't Rambo so weapons are often allowed in self defence.

JIM_BOB7813 · 27 Jul 2009 at 20:53

mike5678 said:
Stabbing someone for vandalism is not reasonable force and does not fall under self defence. The only way he could justify stabbing them is if he believed that his life was in genuine danger, e.g. if the other party also had a knife or similar weapon. This is not an attempted murder, but on the face of it with the facts shown I would not be surprised if he was convicted of GBH with intent.

From the article

"We went outside. The teenagers were drunk and one threatened to kill me and burn the house down.

I was terrified and when Alex tried to calm him down, the other four got worked up and attacked him

Alex ended up on the ground with all five yobs on him, kicking him in the head and stomach. I screamed for Colin and he came out, barefoot and half asleep

If what they say is true, then it was more than just vandalism.
It's a tough call because people don't think as logically when something like that is happening, as I see it if you're gonna vandalise someone's property and then start attacking them when they confront you (instead of running away) then you shouldn't expect people to just ask you kindly to leave.

Stabbing someone five times is a little over the top though, but obviously we don't know the whole scenario, for all the guy knew, the kids had knives (or guns).

Tefal · 27 Jul 2009 at 20:53

Burnsy2023 said:
I'm sorry but I don't think that's reasonable, especially when his life wasn't in immediate danger.

his sons was though. being kicked in the head tends to be bad for you health.

knowlesy · 27 Jul 2009 at 20:54

Jokester said:
Good on him and if it went to court I suspect he would be found not guilty.

I hope he isnt kudos to the man!!!!

manic111 · 27 Jul 2009 at 20:55

Tefal said:
his sons was though. being kicked in the head tends to be bad for you health.

But surely stabbing somebody twice is as effective as stabbing him five times, meaning the five times is not reasonable force?

etom · 27 Jul 2009 at 20:55

surely his sons life was in danger though? 5 guys... one / two guys kicking off on soemone is enough to make them think irrationally 5 guys being very violent and aggresive even threating to burn your house down lol and your pushed to using sharp weapons

really hope he gets off with it

Zerolimitz · 27 Jul 2009 at 20:55

tbh i think that was reasonable force bet the kid's learned there lesson.. sorry but drunk or not you have no excuse to threaten to kill someone and burn there house down not to mention those kids where kicking the crap out of his stepson honestly the 5 kids should go to jail i prob would have done worse.

scorza · 27 Jul 2009 at 20:56

The Craig said:
So he stabbed a teenager 5 times as "Reasonable defence" ?
A knife isn't used for defence, and the man should be charged (even though the 5 guys probably deserved it, it doesn't make it right).

It was a letter opener according to the article.

Greenlizard0 · 27 Jul 2009 at 20:57

Tefal said:
his sons was though. being kicked in the head tends to be bad for you health.

Aye, and if the dad was defending one of his own, well..

^TANK^ · 27 Jul 2009 at 20:58

manic111 said:
But surely stabbing somebody twice is as effective as stabbing him five times, meaning the five times is not reasonable force?

Fight or flight. In the heat of the moment when the adrenaline is pumping counting is the last thing you do!

Buffman · 27 Jul 2009 at 20:59

Tefal said:
and what if he had done nothing and his son had died from head injuries?

Or should he have just tried to take on 5 guys barehanded and wound up in hospital like his son or dead?

I'd sooner take on five people bare handed than pull a knife on someone, it would never end well. On the other hand though if his son was in danger then I can imagine him panicking so he wouldn't be thinking properly.

^TANK^ · 27 Jul 2009 at 20:59

Zerolimitz said:
tbh i think that was reasonable force bet the kid's learned there lesson.. sorry but drunk or not you have no excuse to threaten to kill someone and burn there house down not to mention those kids where kicking the crap out of his stepson honestly the 5 kids should go to jail i prob would have done worse.

To bloody right!

Bry · 27 Jul 2009 at 21:00

Since his son's life was in danger he is entitled to use deadly force.
Police should not have arrested him. Questioned him yes but not arrested, this is really why decent people are afraid to walk the streets and why gangs and criminals are laughing at decent hard working people

Burnsy2023 · 27 Jul 2009 at 21:01

The Craig said:
I'd sooner take on five people bare handed than pull a knife on someone, it would never end well. On the other hand though if his son was in danger then I can imagine him panicking.

Don't get me wrong. I can completely understand why someone would do what was said in the article and I have very little sympathy for the little **** that was stabbed, but I don't think the law is on their side.

etom · 27 Jul 2009 at 21:01

The Craig said:
I'd sooner take on five people bare handed than pull a knife on someone, it would never end well. On the other hand though if his son was in danger then I can imagine him panicking so he wouldn't be thinking properly.

and you think the average 60 year old (guessing the age of the step dad) shares the same view as you?

scorza · 27 Jul 2009 at 21:03

Jokester said:
So police shouldn't invistigate what could have been a serious knife attack and just let him go on his way?

Course they should investigate it, something like this I imagine:

Police: "Ok Mr Philpotts, what happened?"
Mr Philpotts: "I was attacked by these five youths as they were vandalising my van outside my home and beating my son. I fought them off with my letter opener which I keep near the front door and unfortunately during the scuffle one of them got stabbed five times"
Police: "I see, well we know where you live, we'll be in touch when we need your testimony in court against these five ruffians".

You know, maybe the police could think about actual justice a bit before just going for the easy arrest to meet their targets.