Receiving money not mine

Raymond Lin said:
Doesn't make it right, and may be it is something we need to teach our children better.
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Sure it's not 'right' but it seems perfectly acceptable in our society. It just comes down to what is seen as 'acceptable' and not how the law interprits it. You don't get labled as a criminal for speeding.
 
Mr Blonde said:
Sure it's not 'right' but it seems perfectly acceptable in our society. It just comes down to what is seen as 'acceptable' and not how the law interprits it. You don't get labled as a criminal for speeding.
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Breaking traffic laws does get less punishment than majority of other offence (one of the few offences you can commit and still not get kick out of the Bar/Law Society, Not having TV licence is a big No No - Crime of dishonesty), however, it is still NOT acceptable to break them just because you think or people in general think it is acceptable. Unless i am mistaken, speeding is still illegal, regardless of what society's perception of how easy it is to break.
 
I'm sure everyone knows that, but it still MUST be accepted as (and I'll wager here) the vast majority of motorists do it/have done it.

Edit: We're going round in circles so I think I'm done here.
 
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Mr Blonde said:
I'm sure everyone knows that, but it still MUST be accepted as (and I'll wager here) the vast majority of motorists do it/have done it.
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You seem to have this idea that just because everybody does it, so it must be right. It doesn't work like that, not unless you can make parliment change the law and remove the speed limit. As long as that speed limit is there, then everyon who drive above it is breaking the law. YES, EVERYONE. Just because they don't get caught, does not mean

1 - It never happened

2 - It is right to do it again

3 - You can do it too.

If you ever get fine for speeding, and turn up in court, try the argument "Your worships, everyone does it too." and you'll see how far that get you.
 
I fully understand what you're saying and NO, I don't have this idea that it's alright.
I know it's not 'right', there's is no defence for doing it, you're breaking the law, pleading mass stupidity is not going to get you off! I'm also not condoning it or preaching to anyone here that they should speed just because everyone else does it.

My point, if I've not lost it myself, was to try and point out that there are similar 'crimes' (in my eye) commited every single day that the vast majority of people don't see as a crime. They are accepted as an everyday occurance. People do them without a single thought - sure, it's still a crime though.
 
Mr Blonde said:
I fully understand what you're saying and NO, I don't have this idea that it's alright.
I know it's not 'right', there's is no defence for doing it, you're breaking the law, pleading mass stupidity is not going to get you off! I'm also not condoning it or preaching to anyone here that they should speed just because everyone else does it.

My point, if I've not lost it myself, was to try and point out that there are similar 'crimes' (in my eye) commited every single day that the vast majority of people don't see as a crime. They are accepted as an everyday occurance. People do them without a single thought - sure, it's still a crime though.
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I understand the point you are trying to make but I think you could have chosen a better analogy to make your point.

I think the main point of contention is a matter for subjective morality.
A lot more people think it is morally wrong to steal something than think it is morally wrong to drive faster than the speed limit.
The degree to which one considers either of these to be morally wrong is entirely dependent upon that person's own morality.

For example:
I personally think it is always wrong to intentionally deprive someone of their possessions however, I believe that it is acceptable to drive a car above the speed limit under certain conditions e.g. if the road is clear and I am driving within my own capabilities and those of the vehicle I am driving (I will drive at 15 MPH past a school but will plant my right foot firmly to the floor on a clear stretch of motorway).

Other people's morality will be different from mine in either case :)

Stan :)
 
Similar thing happened to me, although slightly differently in that I wasn't charged for a £400 item I had ordered from an online shop.

I made sure I had the money to cover it for at least 6 months after, but nothing came of it, so I forgot about it... Free monitor!
 
Bigstan said:
I doubt very much that any business would deliberately keep someone's money - they wouldn't be in business very long.
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And i doubt very much that any business who found out they had £330 they didn't actually deserve wouldn't keep the money or at least hold on to it until challenged. Having worked for several large retail companies, i can confirm that they would and have done that.

Your point seems to be made on the assumption that whoever's lost the money know's who has it, when that's not always the case.
 
Windle said:
And i doubt very much that any business who found out they had £330 they didn't actually deserve wouldn't keep the money or at least hold on to it until challenged. Having worked for several large retail companies, i can confirm that they would and have done that.
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As I said above, I have had money back from 2 different companies for overcharging before I even knew it had happened.

Windle said:
Your point seems to be made on the assumption that whoever's lost the money know's who has it, when that's not always the case.
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Is it :confused:
I had no idea I had made such an assumption - how exactly did you come to this conclusion?

Stan :)
 
They will probably write to you and ask for it back. when i joined the gym they didnt take any money from my bank for 9 months, then wrote to me saying i owe them 240 quid! in the end they wrote it off and made me re join. nice little earner for me!
 
I would leave it for a few months and decide that the company had abandoned the money, thus making the Theft Act not applicable :p

In my eyes they are a huge corporation and don't care whether they get their money back at all, therefore, Theft Act sidestepped, wooohooo ;)

Edit:

Some helpful law actually relating to the situation:

s. 5(4) provides that:

“Where a person gets property by another's mistake, and is under an obligation to make restoration (in whole or in part) of the property or it's proceeds or of the value thereof, then to the extent of that obligation the property or proceeds shall be regarded (as against him) as belonging to the person entitled to restoration and an intention not to make restoration shall be regarded accordingly as an intention to deprive a person of the property or proceeds.”

s. 5(4) covers the situation in which the owner transfers property to the defendant under a mistake which is not sufficient to prevent ownership of the property passing to the defendant. Although ownership has passed, the property is treated as still belonging to the original owner. Thus, if the defendant realises that there has been a mistake and fails to return the property, intending to permanently deprive, he can be liable for theft.

The obligation to return the property must be a legal one not a moral or social one, see Gilks 1971 in which a mistake which led to over payment on a gambling win was held not to fall within s. 5(4) as gambling debts are not legally enforceable.

The person will only be guilty of theft if they are aware of the mistake, being dishonest and intend to permanently deprive the other of it - Attorney Generals Reference.
 
The large utility company I work for do not automatically refund customers who have gone through the debt collection process with a final account, if they end up in credit for whatever reason. If they do not ask for it, they do not get it back, unethical but true. There are accounts that have had over £2,000 sat on them for over 5 years.
 
djbenjo said:
There are accounts that have had over £2,000 sat on them for over 5 years.
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Exactly the point i'm making, there are multiple examples of large companies who have money which don't belong to them, and know it but don't return it unless asked.

Stan, just seemed to be the way you put it across.
 
Hi I Say keep it in the bank for 6 months then you earn a little intrest on it and also if they take it back you lost nothing good luck i hope your get to spend it on a nice new graphics card :) :)
 
I accidentally payed my phone bill 3 times over and didn't notice till 4 months later. My phone network didn't refund me until I requested it back but I guess I don't know if they had realised or not. It dosn't bother me as it was my mistake.
I'd treat this in the same way and just keep the money until they asked.

Also, lost my wallet last week through my own stupidity but it was handed in with everything except the cash. I just accept it as what goes around comes around.
 
Windle said:
Exactly the point i'm making, there are multiple examples of large companies who have money which don't belong to them, and know it but don't return it unless asked.

Stan, just seemed to be the way you put it across.
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Just because others do something doesn't mean its right for you to do it though does it
 
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