Recessed BT Phone socket

[bitslice]

What is the point in arguing about it? The line works regardless of termination, the NTE5 is not needed, it is as simple as that. You could stick the pair into the back of a phone or router with no termination and it will work.

The guy can add any termination to it as he so wishes, BT are not going to charge him, he will not get in trouble, just what do you think will happen?

Thanks for googling the PD of the line by the way, very helpful

I didn't need to google the line voltage, I did happen to know, even down to it being expressed as -ve.

Why do you think BT went to the trouble of making the NTE5 then? It's a demarcation point, it's where their responsibility stops. Notwithstanding its technical function.

Gas surge arresters mean nothing to you then? Why don't you remove the line filter from your PC then, it's still going to work without it.

The OP is free to do the same research as me, "is it OK with BT to replace the nte5". Seems like the answer is no to me.

By the way again i do admire your quick google skills, i think you had better go and extend the knowledge you clearly have gained from this with BT's engineers. They routinely and in most circumstances will patch corporate PSTN circuits over structured cabling, usually patching the resultant NTE5 into the patch panel at the point of delivery. (in a rack for an ADSL circuit for example).

I did kinda know the rough figures already, but I prefer to get the exact ones (500, not 300)

Patching over structured cabling is clearly for convienience, there being no other reason to use really expensive UTP cable to deliver voice. In this case we are talking about using UTP externally to replace telephone wire, something clearly never intended to be used outside. Besides, you really are stepping on their toes by messing with their pole termination.
What's the point of BT tuning their kit to work with a known impedance and frequency response if you are going to frig about and change the characteristics of the line for them? If you've seen a change then that's down to new copper and screw tightening, not with BT not knowing how to run a Telecom business.

I'm not here to tell people which bodges may work, any idiot can do that, I'm here to suggest what is the correct way of doing things. And if they question that, to explain technically why things are done that way. I'm really not bothered who the OP chooses to listen to, I've done my bit.

Like I said, you are free to get a BT Engineer to contradict anything I have posted, but just you saying it's nonsense doesn't interest me.

 

[Jez]

This is all absolutely obvious stuff, it is pointless arguing about it. You KNOW i am right and nothing will come of using a nicer faceplate, you are arguing for the sake of it and sighting irrelevant best practices for the sake of it.

Ok, so we can summarise from all of this completely and utterly irrelevant drivel (from both of us);

- Do what you like, it is your house.
- Installing your own faceplate as a master is not the "correct" thing to do, but will work.
- BT might frown upon it if they ever attended your house.

 

[Jez]

If you've seen a change then that's down to new copper and screw tightening.

.....yes, that was the point? (Ally in my case hence the significant difference).

I'm not here to tell people which bodges may work, any idiot can do that, I'm here to suggest what is the correct way of doing things..

Well what use it that to the OP? He has asked if he may replace the official termination with a nicer looking unofficial one. Obviously the correct answer is no, that will be the official line when looking at replacing absolutely any officially supplied termination for any service. Sky say you cant replace their routers too - people do, and they (obviously) work fine.

 

[bitslice]

you are arguing for the sake of it and sighting (*citing) irrelevant best practices for the sake of it.

The point of Best Practice is that it's followed when you have no good reason to do otherwise.
I don't see this forum being about who is right, rather it is just about being helpful. As your suggestion may cause him problems I don't see it as helpful, sorry about that.

- Do what you like, it is your house.

This doesn't apply to gas, electricity or water/sewage services, or even TV usage, why should BT be any different?

Installing your own faceplate as a master is not the "correct" thing to do, but will work.

Except he's not going to be installing a master socket, he's intending to use a secondary - they are not functionally the same thing. Bicycle wheels work, I'm still not putting them on my car just because I like the retro spoke look.

BT might frown upon it if they ever attended your house.

Maybe, but they will also charge the £130 callout fee and screw a proper NTE5 unit to the wall. This also applies when he sells the house, the new owner is also then liable for rectification.
Their line, their kit, their rules. Don't like it? - use 4G

Sky say you cant replace their routers too - people do, and they (obviously) work fine.

That's because they don't want to deal with more than one type of router.
Also, not the same comparision, you are suggesting using something which does not have the same functionality.

Say my cat yanks my phone off the wall, as far as BT are concerned nothing has gone wrong because their automatic line check says their line to my NTE is working fine, which it is.
Say DB's dog chews his phone, BT would sense an open loop condition and send out an Engineer to investigate. Problem.


Discussion is only moot because as Tesla points out, BT will put this box wherever you like, so I'm sure DG can find a discrete location. Unfortunately the external NTE appears to have died a death, I can't find any current info on it.

 

[Jez]

Ha, i see that this is going on and on

Let the OP draw their own conclusions, either way it wont matter to anybody

 

[DogsBody]

What exactly does the NTE5 do ?
(should I get my popcorn ready for this answer )

 

[Jez]

Read up mate, bitslice explains what it technically contains. Its basically a nice standardised termination point for BT which also provides some surge resistance. The front faceplate of it also quickly removes detaching all internal wiring inside the house within seconds for diagnostic purposes.

The line will operate without it without issue, but for obvious reasons BT would rather you kept their line to their fixed standard (what large company wouldn't?).

Ideally you should keep their line standard. If you fit a nicer faceplate without them knowing, i wont tell them if you don't.

 

[DogsBody]

trying to decide if I can be bother now to be fair.

I have the house wired with Cat6 everywhere so master socket placement is not really that much of an issue and upstairs has not been fitted with the nice chrome faceplates anyway.
I was just wanting to put the phone socket in a certain place.

It sounds like more of a faf changing it when BT man has gone. I guess I can just put the socket behind where the sofa will go then no one will see it and I can just stuff the router on the floor behind the sofa as well.


I guess I am going to have a trailing wire anyway when the sky engineer turns up and tells me I need to have my sky box plugged into the phone socket anyway (still trying to think of a way around this one)

 

[bremen1874]

I guess I am going to have a trailing wire anyway when the sky engineer turns up and tells me I need to have my sky box plugged into the phone socket anyway (still trying to think of a way around this one)

Does one of your Cat6 cables go to the correct location? If it does you could possibly use it as a telephone extension.

 

[Jez]

Personally i would have BT install the NTE5 next to your patch panel or wherever all of your structured cabling terminates. You can then patch this line through the structured to where you wish to install the router, or indeed install the router at your centralised distribution point (which would keep the ADSL loop to a minimum).

 

[bitslice]

^
This really.
All cabling should terminate in a cupboard somewhere and this is where stuff like SKY Boxes should go too, then it's one HDMI lead out to the TV and an IR repeater to control everything.
Boggles me why people have all this kit on display

 

[Jez]

I do exactly that, structured HDMI with a matrix, with structured TP for data. Keeps everything out of the way. Phone line coming into the same rack, with a dect base station and router right there.

No need for any internal phone extensions or kit on display in this day and age

 

[DogsBody]

Got full size speakers on stands anyway so having kit on display is a meh point really.

Ideally yes I would have everything in cupboard and do it that way but that won't work in my particular scenario.
The thing is I gave the electrician the choice of whether to put the patch panel in the understairs cupboard or upstairs in the bedroom I will convert to my office, But I wish I had insisted on the cupboard downstairs now so I could hide everything.