Recommend a GPU for a Phenom II 955 setup...

[PowerPie5000]

I'm buying a better case for my brothers PC as all of his temps seem a bit high (his current case is quite small and cramped inside with minimal airflow).... Now i'm also thinking about upgrading his GPU but i want to avoid bottlenecks and keep it relatively cheap! Will a 2GB GTX 660 or even a cheaper 2GB Radeon 7850 be a nice upgrade from his old 1GB Radeon 6850? I'm also assuming his Phenom II X4 955BE (3.2GHz) shouldn't be much of a bottleneck? I think anything higher than a Radeon 7870 will probably be wasted though... What do you guys think?

His current specs:

AMD Phenom II X4 955BE @ 3.2GHz (stock)
8GB Kingston DDR3 1333 RAM (2x4GB)
Gigabyte GA-870A-USB3L Motherboard
1GB Club3D Radeon 6850 (factory oc'd)
550W XFX Core Edition PSU
Windows 7 64-bit

Cheers

 

[SouthEastBlue]

A Phenom II at 3.2Ghz is probably already a slight bottleneck in the odd game (Eg World of Warcraft, Battlefield 3 multiplayer, etc). If you over clocked it to 3.8 to 4.2Ghz depending on the CPU limits then it would probably play well with a GPU like a 7850.

 

[Doomedspeed]

a GTX 660 or 7850 would be great..

If it is for WOW gaming, i wouldn't bother as your CPU will be your bottleneck.

 

[PowerPie5000]

A Phenom II at 3.2Ghz is probably already a slight bottleneck in the odd game (Eg World of Warcraft, Battlefield 3 multiplayer, etc). If you over clocked it to 3.8 to 4.2Ghz depending on the CPU limits then it would probably play well with a GPU like a 7850.

I was thinking the same about overclocking, but he has a cheap motherboard with no VRM cooling (and only a 4+1 phase count)... I personally wouldn't push it too much. How much better is a 2GB 7850 compared to his 1GB 6850?

a GTX 660 or 7850 would be great..

If it is for WOW gaming, i wouldn't bother as your CPU will be your bottleneck.

He does play WoW now and then, but that game appears to run ok with his current setup anyway. He plays all sorts of games (at 1080p) and doesn't have the cash for a complete PC overhaul... His motherboard supports some Bulldozer chips (not Piledriver unfortunately), but i don't think they're much better than the old Phenom II for gaming.

 

[Marine-RX179]

I was thinking the same about overclocking, but he has a cheap motherboard with no VRM cooling (and only a 4+1 phase count)... I personally wouldn't push it too much. How much better is a 2GB 7850 compared to his 1GB 6850?

With his Phenom II X4 only at 3.2GB...frame rate would barely improve as it is still held back by the CPU. The only benefit of the 7850 2GB pairing with his system is the option to force graphic settings to run at higher than supposed to (i.e. 8xAA instead of 4xAA etc). For WOW, it would be almost completely pointless to go from 6850 to 7850.

 

[SouthEastBlue]

I'm not entirely sure of the additional power draw from an over clocked Phenom II but if you simply bumped the multiplier as far as poss on stock vcore it should be fine. 7850 vs 6850 here looks like it gives roughly 20 - 50% more performance in favour of the 7850 and that doesn't include over clocking either.

 

[Marine-RX179]

I'm not entirely sure of the additional power draw from an over clocked Phenom II but if you simply bumped the multiplier as far as poss on stock vcore it should be fine. 7850 vs 6850 here looks like it gives roughly 20 - 50% more performance in favour of the 7850 and that doesn't include over clocking either.

That's purely card vs card performance different without accounting CPU bottleneck though.

 

[Davedree]

Get a heatsink strip for the vrms on that gigabyte motherboard, and if the cpu is a c2 aim for 3.7ghz, or c3 aim for 4 ghz, don't forget the cpu-nb overclock,

Buy a 7850 and with a little overclock bar a few games that are poorly optimised , I think it will be a nice balanced system. My i7 2600k holds back my 7950 in euro truck simulator 2 and assasins creeds.

 

[Davedree]

That's purely card vs card performance different without accounting CPU bottleneck though.

A stock Phenom II x4 3.4ghz will hold back a stock 6950 very slightly and a stock 860mhz 7850 is almost comparable to a 800mhz 6950.
The difference between a 6850 and a 7850 is huge even on an amd cpu.
Coming from a 6850 to a 7850 with 2gb of memory at 1080p, I think the 7850 would be a wise investment providing the cpu is clocked to a minimum of 3.8ghz and 2400-2600 cpu-nb

I think you'd be suprised how capable a phII is when clocked properly.
I'm not denying Intel has slightly better performance, but at 7850 level the phII will cope pretty well and with future titles.

 

[teppic]

FPS type games would take a big boost, about +50%. It's a very good upgrade if he plays those, an overclock on the CPU would obviously help gaining a jump in others.

 

[~>Dg<~]

as some have said a 7850 is a nice balance with your cpu. if lder revision c2 cpu aim for a realistic 3.6-3.8, n a c3 g for 3.8-4.0.

i had a [email protected] and it did slightly bottleneck a 6950 oc

so sameish ballpark with a 7850.

i wouldn't go above that with your current cpu but dont be fooled by those phenoms there still very good value when clocked and reason i still keep a p2 quad rig now

 

[Marine-RX179]

A stock Phenom II x4 3.4ghz will hold back a stock 6950 very slightly and a stock 860mhz 7850 is almost comparable to a 800mhz 6950.

Hm...I think you made a mistake with thinking the 7850 being slower than the 6950...the 7850 is faster than even the 6970 by a fair margin, so the bottleneck would be even greater.

Card to card comparison yes the 7850 would be around 40-50% faster than the 6850, however unless OP can heavily overclock his bro's system's CPU (which he did not mention that's something he'll be doing, and he enquire specifically with his CPU at 3.20GHz), going from the 6850 to 7850 on the Phenom II X4 955 at stock would be more like 0-20% increase in performance (situation dependent).

Upgrading to 7850 would only really give the option to use higher graphic details such as AA etc, but the frame rate would still largely remain the same due to the PII 955 at 3.20GHz. IMO if higher frame rate rather than higher graphic details is what prefered, for £150 OP would be better off grabbing a 2nd hand i5 2500K and 1155 board (may be that new Gigabyte Z68 board for £45). The difference would be something be like Phenom II x4 955+7850 20-45fps on Ultra or High (CPU bottleneck) vs i5 2500K+6850 on High 40-60fps+.

 

[PowerPie5000]

Get a heatsink strip for the vrms on that gigabyte motherboard

I was thinking about that seeing as there's space and 2 holes on the board for a VRM heatsink... Do you know where i could fine one that would fit?

Hm...I think you made a mistake with thinking the 7850 being slower than the 6950...the 7850 is faster than even the 6970 by a fair margin, so the bottleneck would be even greater.

Card to card comparison yes the 7850 would be around 40-50% faster than the 6850, however unless OP can heavily overclock his bro's system's CPU (which he did not mention that's something he'll be doing, and he enquire specifically with his CPU at 3.20GHz), going from the 6850 to 7850 on the Phenom II X4 955 at stock would be more like 0-20% increase in performance (situation dependent).

Upgrading to 7850 would only really give the option to use higher graphic details such as AA etc, but the frame rate would still largely remain the same due to the PII 955 at 3.20GHz. IMO if higher frame rate rather than higher graphic details is what prefered, for £150 OP would be better off grabbing a 2nd hand i5 2500K and 1155 board (may be that new Gigabyte Z68 board for £45). The difference would be something be like Phenom II x4 955+7850 20-45fps on Ultra or High (CPU bottleneck) vs i5 2500K+6850 on High 40-60fps+.

Getting a cheap i5 2500k and motherboard is definitely tempting, but it's more cost and the fact his OEM version of Windows 7 is registered/tied with his Gigabyte motherboard (so a new OS will also be required)... And he'd still want a better GPU. Backing up and reinstalling everything would be a long winded process too, but i'll certainly look into it .

How much do you guys think he'd get for the following components if he decides to sell? :

Phenom II X4 955BE (maybe around £40?)
1GB Club3D Radeon 6850 OC Edition (Maybe around £55?)
Gigabyte GA-870A-USB3L Motherboard (maybe around £30?)

All components still have the original boxes and accessories.

 

[Marine-RX179]

How much do you guys think he'd get for the following components if he decides to sell? :

Phenom II X4 955BE (maybe around £40?)
1GB Club3D Radeon 6850 OC Edition (Maybe around £55?)
Gigabyte GA-870A-USB3L Motherboard (maybe around £30?)

All components still have the original boxes and accessories.

Forum rule don't allow price checking outside of members market. But anyway I would think you more or less got it right, but I think the motherboard would be the hardest one to sell, if not sold as a bundle.

 

[teppic]

I'd try the new card before replacing the board and CPU. For instance, in BF3 single player you'd get the same FPS as a 2500K with a Phenom II X2 560 at stock clocks. Games that aren't very CPU dependent would perform a lot better with the 7850, only those that are heavily dependent wouldn't make a gain - and then you could overclock the CPU for a bit of a bump in those.

 

[Davedree]

Hm...I think you made a mistake with thinking the 7850 being slower than the 6950...the 7850 is faster than even the 6970 by a fair margin, so the bottleneck would be even greater.

Card to card comparison yes the 7850 would be around 40-50% faster than the 6850, however unless OP can heavily overclock his bro's system's CPU (which he did not mention that's something he'll be doing, and he enquire specifically with his CPU at 3.20GHz), going from the 6850 to 7850 on the Phenom II X4 955 at stock would be more like 0-20% increase in performance (situation dependent).

Upgrading to 7850 would only really give the option to use higher graphic details such as AA etc, but the frame rate would still largely remain the same due to the PII 955 at 3.20GHz. IMO if higher frame rate rather than higher graphic details is what prefered, for £150 OP would be better off grabbing a 2nd hand i5 2500K and 1155 board (may be that new Gigabyte Z68 board for £45). The difference would be something be like Phenom II x4 955+7850 20-45fps on Ultra or High (CPU bottleneck) vs i5 2500K+6850 on High 40-60fps+.

Considering I used a 6850 on an 4.2ghz x4 b55 then upgraded to a 6950, then 1536 unlocked and clocked that 6950, then decided to buy a 2600k, Then compared the cpus with the 6950 to see some gains but not that great in the games I played/play. Then recently I played with a 7850 against my 6950. http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18472789

I'd say I have personal experience and great understanding of exactly where a stock 860mhz 7850 sits, and that is dependent on game either ljust below a 6970 or just slightly above. So my comment of comparable really means within a few frames of a 6950.

You seem to think the phII will hold it back hugely and he won't see much gain from a 6850 to a 7850, yes in some games it will hold it back a bit at 3.2ghz but nothing to worry about. The situation comes down to what games the op actually plays.

 

[Marine-RX179]

Considering I used a 6850 on an 4.2ghz x4 b55 then upgraded to a 6950, then 1536 unlocked and clocked that 6950, then decided to buy a 2600k, Then compared the cpus with the 6950 to see some gains but not that great in the games I played/play. Then recently I played with a 7850 against my 6950. http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18472789

I'd say I have personal experience and great understanding of exactly where a stock 860mhz 7850 sits, and that is dependent on game either ljust below a 6970 or just slightly above. So my comment of comparable really means within a few frames of a 6950.

You seem to think the phII will hold it back hugely and he won't see much gain from a 6850 to a 7850, yes in some games it will hold it back a bit at 3.2ghz but nothing to worry about. The situation comes down to what games the op actually plays.

On the note of 7850 vs 6950:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_7850_HD_7870/26.html
And this review was done even before the 12.11 driver.

As for the CPU while it's not like for like, but I considering my old Q6600 overclocked to 3.60GHz (more or less on par with a Phenom II X4 at same speed) was bottlenecking my 5850 quite hugely, with some games which the GPU usage would dip down to as low as 60-80%, and frame rate dropping down to low 20s. How big the CPU bottleneck is is not how big you "think" it is, but can actually be identified by how much GPU usage dip from 99%.

Simply put, you cannot use your 4.20GHz Phenom II X4 experience to present the same CPU at 3.20GHz. Your extra 1.00GHz would have made a huge difference.

 

[teppic]

A 6950 -> 7850 upgrade would be minimal, some games gaining nothing. For example, Witcher 2 on a benchmark with recent drivers goes from 59.9fps (6950) to 58.7fps (7850). An upgrade from a 6850 to 7850 would be substantial though in all but the most CPU intensive games.

As above, in BF3, even a dual core 3.3GHz Phenom performs the same as an i5 2500K at 1080p/ultra settings. Overclocking/replacing the CPU would make no measurable difference in games that are heavily GPU bound like this.

 

[Marine-RX179]

As above, in BF3, even a dual core 3.3GHz Phenom performs the same as an i5 2500K at 1080p/ultra settings. Overclocking/replacing the CPU would make no measurable difference in games that are heavily GPU bound like this.

Except that most people that get BF3 is for playing it online multiplayer, which is known to be heavily CPU limited with a i3/Core2Quad/Phenom II X4 level CPU.

OP has specifically asked if the Phenom II X4 at 3.20GHz bottleneck would be issue if the 6850 was upgraded to the 7850, yet people would rather give him false reassurance of it wouldn't be anything worth worrying about. This kind of "kindness" is not needed by the OP...he ask about it, then he would want the truth. And the simple truth is the frame rate that a Phenom II X4 3.20GHz capable of pushing simple won't be able keep up with the 7850 majority of the times, except for cherry-picked examples or using graphic settings beyond the 7850 itself can handle (i.e. Highest graphic settings that are mean for 7950 or GTX670 or above).

 

[PowerPie5000]

Any opinions on the 2GB GTX 650Ti Boost? Is it worth swapping out my brothers CPU for a Phenom II x6 1100T, FX-4170 or FX-6100? Will any of these make a difference? His motherboard doesn't support Piledriver/Vishera processors... Only Athlon II/Phenom II and a few Bulldozer chips.