Recommend a surround sound system

[Rito]

Hi,

I'm looking to purchase a surround sound system but I have no clue about amps or speakers and would appreciate you recommending me an amp and speakers.

I will be using the surround sound to watch movies, listen to music and play games on my PC. I have a rough budget of £500 but can easily go higher if it worth the cost.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Go to richer sounds website and see what packages they have for that budget

 

[Curlyriff]

If you are gaming on the PC as well as doing the movie watching I am going to assume you are using a TV.

With the £500 budget I would honestly check out a sound base instead. Something like the Philips Fidelio XS1 Soundstage would be my recommendation.

For the price I don't think you can go wrong and it is a cleaner better setup than trying to make a cheaper surround sound system work.

https://www.avforums.com/review/philips-fidelio-xs1-soundstage-review.12318

 

[FurryLemon]

You can get a new 5.1 + avr for 500, but it'll be pretty lackluster.

Best off maybe spending the extra and going for the Monitor Audio Mass 5.1 for 499 and picking up a second hand AVR for 100-200. You can get new avrs for 150also, but it'll be very basic.


Mass - http://www.richersounds.com/product/speaker-packages/monitor-audio/mass-5.1/moni-audio-mass

There is also the QA 2000 package for 399 -http://www.richersounds.com/package/speakers/speaker-packages/pah01309. You'll need speaker stands though, so the saving isn't that great and the Mass are the better speakers.

The subs in both of these packages will be pretty poor.

Obviously get more for your money second hand. Try the avforums classifieds.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

If you are gaming on the PC as well as doing the movie watching I am going to assume you are using a TV.

With the £500 budget I would honestly check out a sound base instead. Something like the Philips Fidelio XS1 Soundstage would be my recommendation.

For the price I don't think you can go wrong and it is a cleaner better setup than trying to make a cheaper surround sound system work.

https://www.avforums.com/review/philips-fidelio-xs1-soundstage-review.12318

no chance. separates destroy them.

the bigger the speaker the bigger the sound and usually bigger drivers have better sound quality too.

you cannot compare the 2.

Also by having real surround sound speakers you can actually hear the sounds coming from around you rather than from in front of you

 

[Psycho Sonny]

You can get a new 5.1 + avr for 500, but it'll be pretty lackluster.

Best off maybe spending the extra and going for the Monitor Audio Mass 5.1 for 499 and picking up a second hand AVR for 100-200. You can get new avrs for 150also, but it'll be very basic.


Mass - http://www.richersounds.com/product/speaker-packages/monitor-audio/mass-5.1/moni-audio-mass

There is also the QA 2000 package for 399 -http://www.richersounds.com/package/speakers/speaker-packages/pah01309. You'll need speaker stands though, so the saving isn't that great and the Mass are the better speakers.

The subs in both of these packages will be pretty poor.

Obviously get more for your money second hand. Try the avforums classifieds.

I'll soon have a AVR up for sale a Yamaha 677. Message me OP on AVforums if you are interested and I can advertise on there. I have the same name as on here but without the space iirc

 

[Curlyriff]

no chance. separates destroy them.

the bigger the speaker the bigger the sound and usually bigger drivers have better sound quality too.

you cannot compare the 2.

Also by having real surround sound speakers you can actually hear the sounds coming from around you rather than from in front of you

Sorry but at that price range it just isn't true. I have the MA Silver range for the last 7 years and my brother has the sound base. Honestly for what is needed for movies etc at the £400-£500 range I just have not found anything that is any better than the sound stages for price/performance/ease of use.

At least unless you go second hand but that is a different ball game all together.

 

[FurryLemon]

No...

even the cheap sat/sub systems like the monitor audio mass linked above crush any sound bar/base.

 

[Rito]

Thanks for all the recommendations and replies.

If you are gaming on the PC as well as doing the movie watching I am going to assume you are using a TV.

I'm using a X34 predator monitor at the moment.

Obviously get more for your money second hand. Try the avforums classifieds.

At least unless you go second hand but that is a different ball game all together.

I'm happy to purchase second hand. What should I look for in an avr and speakers?

 

[Curlyriff]

Sorry I have used them side by side. My brother works for Seven Oaks and it isn't true at all. The cheap sat/subs are just that and really are poor in comparison to some of the sound stages out there. Yes there are also bad sound stages but that is the same with any product.

 

[Curlyriff]

Thanks for all the recommendations and replies.

I'm using a X34 predator monitor at the moment.

I'm happy to purchase second hand. What should I look for in an avr and speakers?

Need to know some more details if possible.

Room size is key to what to go for in terms of speakers as well as layout of the room. Then it is understanding which speakers and amps work well together as you will find that for instance Pioneer and Monitor Audio speakers (apart from the silvers that I have) are generally a little clinical in sound and come out somewhat brash.

So if you find a good set of Monitor Audio Bronze second hand (although a push at your budget normally around the £500-£650 mark for the 5.1 speakers) then you would want to pair them up with a denon amp which gives an overall warmer tone and people generally find it to be more natural.

If you went with a Pioneer amp then you could use some Ruark Sabres second hand. You will find of course for your money they you are likely to get 4 bookshelf speakers however I do feel unless the room is really large enough a pair of floor standards front with an amp is a much better investment with a sub and then get some rears later on once you've got more funds.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Sorry I have used them side by side. My brother works for Seven Oaks and it isn't true at all. The cheap sat/subs are just that and really are poor in comparison to some of the sound stages out there. Yes there are also bad sound stages but that is the same with any product.

Are you seriously saying that a soundbase will beat the "QA 2000 package for 399" and a second hand AVR for £100?

Please go educate yourself

 

[Curlyriff]

Are you seriously saying that a soundbase will beat the "QA 2000 package for 399" and a second hand AVR for £100?

Please go educate yourself

Don't be so condescending!!

My brother works with this stuff day in day out and we often spend hours after the store closes checking out the latest setups, different options.

I will reaffirm that in situations at home that having a soundbase system can at times give better results than a 5.1 full system although would always advice to get a soundbase that has a separate sub for more obvious reasons. This comes down to the space and shape of the room because if the room is too small then you will never gain from the system and you will find sounds are fighting each other and feeling muddled when playing.

The QA 2000i 5.1 is a great system. Yes it will be a level above the soundbase in terms of sound/performance however it requires setting up correctly, stands for the speakers, cables etc.

So lets add the QA3000 stands which will require 2 pairs at £99 a pair or 4 QA2100 wall brackets at £18 for each.

Then chuck in the cabling which OK doesn't have to be expensive however it is still an added cost of say £80 (some places may chuck in cables for free if you ask).

Then as you say you are onto a 2nd hand amp such as the Pioneer VSX-923 at the lower end of the scale but an ideal partner to the QA 2000 series which comes out at £150 ish 2nd hand.

Other options depending on how warm the OP wants the sound:

Denon 1910 £150 2nd hand (warmer sound)
Onkyo TX-SR607 £100 2nd hand (harder to find and closer to Pioneer in sound)
Sony STR-DA2400es £100 (for me the weakest of the options but could everyone different with sound)

Steps up but worth the money if you are already looking at the 5.1 system

Onkyo TXNR 616 around £250 2nd hand but a superb amp for the money.

But yeah all in you are looking at £710-£850 for the speakers/amp setup so the soundbase is under half the price and not expecting to compete but does come in on budget at least from initial stated budget.

Now if the OP is as they say happy to go up and the room is at least 4m x 4m (really want a room this size to really get the speakers to work well in surround sound) then yes the QA 2000i 5.1 speakers make sense. I would personally be looking at buying new and seeing what deal the OP could get on a full setup (often offer 10-15% discount and/or free cabling when buying a package):

QA2000i 5.1 set £399
Yamaha RXV381 £219
Cambridge Audio Symphony 300 Cables (assume 3m for fronts and 8m for rear) £53
Cambridge Audio Banana Plugs for cables £25
Cambridge Audio AUD500 7.5m Sub Cable £30
Wall mounted brackets for the 4 satellite speakers £72

Total cost £798

I would push for the cabling to be free (with above spec) or 10% off depending on how things seem to be going making it around the £690-£718

Again this is assuming that the room is around 4m square (ideally you don't want an exactly square room) but just area wise. It would be best if the room was really 4m wide by 5-6m deep but you would need more cable length then.

 

[Curlyriff]

On note of the Mass speakers by MA. I actually preferred the sound of the QA 2000i speakers. The stands don't come with the Mass though as someone suggested above. Wall mounts are £25 a pair though and the floor stands are £112.50 a pair but are also pre-wired.

However what the Mass is good at is space saving and sound depth for their size. They are really small compared to 4 bookshelf speakers. Again though to get a setup you are looking at another £100 compared to that of QA2000i although Richer Sounds are doing the Yamaha RXV581 Amp and Speakers for £799, Add the £50 for wall brackets and £108 for the cabling and you are all in at £957 (almost double the budget).

But that is an amp that released at £500 and speakers were originally £800 by themselves when they hit the market and at that price point Yamaha really pulled off a blinder when it was released.

Again OP it really depends on your true budget. The Soundbase to me at the £500 mark still makes sense because it is half the price and £50 under budget. The other options if your room can accommodate yes make sense but you need to up your budget really to make that step up from the Soundbase level of quality to a 5.1 package.

 

[Curlyriff]

No...

even the cheap sat/sub systems like the monitor audio mass linked above crush any sound bar/base.

The Mass isn't a cheap sat/sub setup (well it is relative to a true 5.1 setup) but it isn't compared the OP original budget as noted with my replies and that is the point.

An actual 5.1 £500 setup is something like this
http://www.richersounds.com/product/home-cinema-systems/yamaha/yht1810/yama-yht1810

And that is where I am saying the soundbase actually sounds as good if not better. A few seem to magically forget all the stuff that goes with the systems and where costs can add up.

We do really need to know the OP room layout/size as well to really be able to advise further.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Speaker cable is £30 at the most

"AWG 13 - 2x2,5mm² - 30m Role | DCSk HiFi Copper Loud Speaker Cable transparent | 99,99% OFC pure Copper"

Wall brackets £40 or they could place them on top of things already in the room like TV cabinets, windowsills, other furniture, etc. But yes £40 for brackets.

You can get a second hand 677 for around £150.

So £620 in total and it will blow away the soundbase.

As for setting it up correctly the AVR comes with a YPAO mic for this very reason, it sets it up automatically for your room.

If someone has the space for seperates and wants seperates no way should anyone be selling them a soundbase.

I own a soundbar made by Yamaha the rolls royce of soundbars and I own seperates. It's like comparing a Jet Ski with a Yacht. Both do the same thing (travel on water) however it's impossible to compare them or to suggest someone that is looking to buy a yacht they need a jet ski is ridiculous.

 

[Curlyriff]

Speaker cable is £30 at the most

"AWG 13 - 2x2,5mm² - 30m Role | DCSk HiFi Copper Loud Speaker Cable transparent | 99,99% OFC pure Copper"

Wall brackets £40 or they could place them on top of things already in the room like TV cabinets, windowsills, other furniture, etc. But yes £40 for brackets.

You can get a second hand 677 for around £150.

So £620 in total and it will blow away the soundbase.

As for setting it up correctly the AVR comes with a YPAO mic for this very reason, it sets it up automatically for your room.

If someone has the space for seperates and wants seperates no way should anyone be selling them a soundbase.

I own a soundbar made by Yamaha the rolls royce of soundbars and I own seperates. It's like comparing a Jet Ski with a Yacht. Both do the same thing (travel on water) however it's impossible to compare them or to suggest someone that is looking to buy a yacht they need a jet ski is ridiculous.

I just priced up the costs of cables etc from what would be needed. You are now suggest the OP to buy a long role and cut their own cable and add the banana plugs then (which you haven't added to the £30) or the sub cable.

Again that isn't the end of world but is something adding to the requirement rather than just being able to plug and play. So your saving is £23 for the cables themselves not the £70 your suggesting.

I gave the price of the wall brackets that match the speakers being brought up at their current price. Not some random figure you have decided to use.

Further that it is all well and good saying place them on other objects. They wont be at the right height/position most the time for instance placing two bookshelf speakers on the TV cabinet (assuming it's not on the wall) will mean they are too low and too close together). It is the reason that Richer Sounds & Seven Oaks still offer a service to have a sound engineer set the system up. The placement and the manual adjustments with much higher end equipment will still be beneficial over the auto setup of any system out there pretty much.

Similar to that you can adjust base things on TV's but a professional with the right sensors still makes it optimal.

I am not suggesting that the auto-setup wont work but there will still be issues in a room too small or with placement. Optimal positions still make things better otherwise we would just stick them all the corner and say it will sort itself out.

We don't know if there is space for the 5.1 setup because the OP hasn't stated their room size. You are making assumptions. I started with providing a solution in budget that is plug and play. I have explained more can be done otherwise but that is dependant on the OP, what they can stretch too and what they want from the setup.

In regards to the the Yamaha RX-A677. I haven't used the amp itself but where you are suggesting you can pick them up for £150 I don't know. The cheapest I have seen one go is almost £200 used and they are about £350-£400 from a store.

I am not going to reply to the analogy because honestly your logic is flawed on the principles from the get go. You are still trying to compare something that is over the original budget to something that came in on budget.

And my brother uses the soundbar I recommended as he lives in a flat and satellite/bookshelf speakers are not practical for the room size. I have the 5.1 Monitor Audio Silver series while using RX8 at front and the bookshelf for rears as my room is larger and it suits my needs. However they would not work as well the other way around.

If I was in the flat for instance I would be much better off getting the RX6 and playing in 2.1 because of the scale of the room.

 

[hornetstinger]

For £500 budget I'd go stereo. Then add the rest later. If you want a semi decent surround system you'll need to spend a bit more, something like Q Acoustics all round, with a decent sub. £1000 or thereabouts in total.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

I bought that roll and I managed to cut it up fine. It doesn't take a rocket scientist a 14 year old could do it.

Also why do you need banana plugs? I don't use them and my setup works fine.

Also I imagine the majority of people don't care if it's in exactly the right position or height. As long as it's roughly there the YPAO mic will do the rest.

Subwoofers usually come with a sub cable, well mine came with 2.

The masses just simply don't care about things like banana plugs and the exact positioning.

 

[Curlyriff]

I bought that roll and I managed to cut it up fine. It doesn't take a rocket scientist a 14 year old could do it.

Also why do you need banana plugs? I don't use them and my setup works fine.

Also I imagine the majority of people don't care if it's in exactly the right position or height. As long as it's roughly there the YPAO mic will do the rest.

Subwoofers usually come with a sub cable, well mine came with 2.

The masses just simply don't care about things like banana plugs and the exact positioning.

You seem to have a very odd outlook on what the masses will and will not do. For instance if you buy from Richer Sounds etc they will do the cable for you with the plugs. The reason to have them is because they are much more user friendly to plug into position and unplug should you need to move them for any reason later. Casual user having plug and play again here.

I am not saying it is difficult. I am pointing out that not everyone will be wanting to do as such.

It doesn't have to exact but suggesting to place the satellite/bookshelf speakers on the tv stand would offer horrible positions where no amount of auto-adjust would help. The sounds would bleed into each other because the left to right sound field would be too small especially once you have your centre there.

All speaker companies recommend that the speakers are at ear level for a reason because it naturally works better for the auto system to accommodate the sounds from the music/movie play back.

Subs in 5.1 packages don't usually come with cables certainly not from MA or Q Acoustics anyways.

If spending £500 + on a system there is no point compromising placement because then you loose the benefit you are talking about compared to that of them being satellite to a soundbase.

Again all this feedback is a little moot until we get more details from the OP which I hope is still here reading. There is no problem with difference of opinion but listening to viewpoints and how they go about things should be respectful.

So in terms so far I would say:

If the OP decides the cost/benefit to time taken for a 5.1 system is too much then a soundbase is a simple and elegant solution that is still a step up from both PC speaker systems and the current TV/Monitor speakers built in for all that offer as such.

If the OP would really like a full high end 5.1 system then it would be better for them to start with Amp and front Floor standers and then add a sub, rears, centre as monies. I would personally up the budget a little to close to £800 if doing this as it will allow for them to then keep the floor standers for as long as they want. I would suggest looking for 2nd hand Monitor Audio Silver RX6 which 2nd hand retail around the £4-500 mark (although hard to find) and and then spend the other £3-400 on a decent amp either 2nd hand or a year old but new from store depending on preference to get bast bang for buck.

If the OP wants a full system now and the room suits etc though and they can up their budget to the £800 mark to get as such then the principle of the QA200i & MA Mass make more sense.