Recommend a surround sound system

Need to know some more details if possible.

Room size is key to what to go for in terms of speakers as well as layout of the room. Then it is understanding which speakers and amps work well together as you will find that for instance Pioneer and Monitor Audio speakers (apart from the silvers that I have) are generally a little clinical in sound and come out somewhat brash.

Crazy technical discussion.

My room is roughly 4m x 3m; my monitor is mounted at the center of the wall; I keep my room very minimal so there is only my bed and wardrobe; I have laminates (don't know if that will have an effect).

£500 isn't my maximum budget but rather I'm looking for a decent sound setup so I can easily go higher.
 
I bought that roll and I managed to cut it up fine. It doesn't take a rocket scientist a 14 year old could do it.

Also why do you need banana plugs? I don't use them and my setup works fine.

Also I imagine the majority of people don't care if it's in exactly the right position or height. As long as it's roughly there the YPAO mic will do the rest.

Subwoofers usually come with a sub cable, well mine came with 2.

The masses just simply don't care about things like banana plugs and the exact positioning.

I use banana plugs, it's quicker safer, and easier to plug and unplug. No risky loose strands.
 
A fair bit because I upgrade amp and speakers. Plus when I want to remove for cleaning, changing cables etc.

Safer than blowing up several thousand pounds worth of amplifiers for the sake of a few quid on banana plugs.
 
A fair bit because I upgrade amp and speakers. Plus when I want to remove for cleaning, changing cables etc.

Safer than blowing up several thousand pounds worth of amplifiers for the sake of a few quid on banana plugs.

How do banana plugs stop speakers from blowing up? Didn't realise they had a fuse inside them ;).

Why would you change cables? Why would you also remove them for cleaning? Mine are inside trunking that is disguised as beading. Therefore permanently installed.

Upgrade amp and speakers how often? It's not something someone does every week. More like once every 5-10 years. So everyone should get banana plugs because you upgrade often?

Like I said before they aren't needed neither are they a necessity.

People use them for convenience if they tinker a lot. I like to let my wires be and enjoy the speakers rather than unplug the wires then plug them back in every day.
 
How do banana plugs stop speakers from blowing up? Didn't realise they had a fuse inside them

Seems you have a problem reading as well.

Safer than blowing up several thousand pounds worth of amplifiers

Connecting two banana plugs round the back of speakers is much easier than bare wire. When the speakers weight 50kg each, you don't want to mess around reaching round the back fiddling with the screw down terminals. Just push in the two bananas
 
Crazy technical discussion.

My room is roughly 4m x 3m; my monitor is mounted at the center of the wall; I keep my room very minimal so there is only my bed and wardrobe; I have laminates (don't know if that will have an effect).

£500 isn't my maximum budget but rather I'm looking for a decent sound setup so I can easily go higher.

Yeah apologise. I do like to try and work through all the details to be able to offer the best advice.

Laminate does in that it reflects a lot more sound than that of a carpet that for instance absorbs sound. These reflects of sound on harder surface make the system work harder to correct the cross over noise from the speakers and often compromise sound which is why you find cinemas have acoustic tiles and all the walls and ceilings. Humans filling the cinema make a good natural sound absorption in comparison to the seats and the sound stage would be designed in the assumption that the cinema room is full for instance.

Further to the details you have provided. The room is the smallest I would recommend going for satellite for. I would suggest that larger bookshelf speakers would be overkill in the space you have. And the cost would be better spent somewhere else.

With that premise and the monitor being on the wall and the room the soundbase still makes sense if you have a unit it can be placed on below your monitor.

If not satellites then as mentioned through the thread would be good. I would go back to take a look at deals from either Richer Sounds or Seven Oaks on the QA2000 setup I outlined. Go for the wall brackets and mount the two front at about the same height as the TV and to each corner of the room (about 1ft away so you don't get sound bouncing off the wall locally) if possible and then the rear speakers to be mounted in the opposite corners accordingly.

The sub can be placed where you can fit it as they are none directional and so you don't have to worry about it all that much.

Following on from that and if as you say budget allows then it may be worth looking at the model up then for the Q Acoustics with the 3000 series. The package is closer to £639 form Seven Oaks but they are the evolution of the 2000 series and take some design from their higher end models also.

With all this in mind I would probably suggest if possible now you know that you are looking at satellite speakers such as the Q Acoustics as your starting point is to pop down to your local Richer Sounds/Seven Oaks and ask them to demo the above. Ask to try a denon, sony, pioneer, Yamaha & onkyo amp that comes in budget that you want to spend.

We had this breakdown earlier I gave

QA2000i 5.1 set £399
Yamaha RXV381 £219
Cambridge Audio Symphony 300 Cables (assume 3m for fronts and 8m for rear) £53
Cambridge Audio Banana Plugs for cables £25
Cambridge Audio AUD500 7.5m Sub Cable £30
Wall mounted brackets for the 4 satellite speakers £72

Total cost £798

With that, the cost difference for the QA3000 series would be an additional £239 for the speakers. And I would suggest you want to take a step up Amp wise as well then.

Again Seven Oaks have got the Sony STR-DN1060 reduced to £299 which would put the total additional cost of the system to £1118. That though of course is without any package deal that you should always get when buying together.

If you are able to afford that setup though that would certainly be my proposal then. I would still demo different amps but ask them what amps they could do a deal on from another brand to match the price as I feel the Denon AVRX2300W would be a better option but at moment is another £100 and so I would push to see if they would match the price.
 
I just priced up the costs of cables etc from what would be needed. You are now suggest the OP to buy a long role and cut their own cable and add the banana plugs then (which you haven't added to the £30) or the sub cable.

Again that isn't the end of world but is something adding to the requirement rather than just being able to plug and play. So your saving is £23 for the cables themselves not the £70 your suggesting.

I gave the price of the wall brackets that match the speakers being brought up at their current price. Not some random figure you have decided to use.

Further that it is all well and good saying place them on other objects. They wont be at the right height/position most the time for instance placing two bookshelf speakers on the TV cabinet (assuming it's not on the wall) will mean they are too low and too close together). It is the reason that Richer Sounds & Seven Oaks still offer a service to have a sound engineer set the system up. The placement and the manual adjustments with much higher end equipment will still be beneficial over the auto setup of any system out there pretty much.

Similar to that you can adjust base things on TV's but a professional with the right sensors still makes it optimal.

I am not suggesting that the auto-setup wont work but there will still be issues in a room too small or with placement. Optimal positions still make things better otherwise we would just stick them all the corner and say it will sort itself out.

We don't know if there is space for the 5.1 setup because the OP hasn't stated their room size. You are making assumptions. I started with providing a solution in budget that is plug and play. I have explained more can be done otherwise but that is dependant on the OP, what they can stretch too and what they want from the setup.

In regards to the the Yamaha RX-A677. I haven't used the amp itself but where you are suggesting you can pick them up for £150 I don't know. The cheapest I have seen one go is almost £200 used and they are about £350-£400 from a store.

I am not going to reply to the analogy because honestly your logic is flawed on the principles from the get go. You are still trying to compare something that is over the original budget to something that came in on budget.

And my brother uses the soundbar I recommended as he lives in a flat and satellite/bookshelf speakers are not practical for the room size. I have the 5.1 Monitor Audio Silver series while using RX8 at front and the bookshelf for rears as my room is larger and it suits my needs. However they would not work as well the other way around.

If I was in the flat for instance I would be much better off getting the RX6 and playing in 2.1 because of the scale of the room.

Im afraid ive got to agree with Sonny on this one.

Room size doesn't dictate if a surround sound system or a soundbase is suitable....you can have a surround sound system in a small lounge with no problems and still get the same effect.

The OP asked for a surround sound system which suggests a 5 speaker system.

Its more a point of if rear speaker sound is important or not.

If rear speaker sound is important then a 5.1 system is the only way to go, if it isn't then go ahead and consider a soundbar/base.

Obviously convenience and ease of setup is another thing entirely but the op simply asked for a budget surround system not a soundbase.
 
Seems you have a problem reading as well.



Connecting two banana plugs round the back of speakers is much easier than bare wire. When the speakers weight 50kg each, you don't want to mess around reaching round the back fiddling with the screw down terminals. Just push in the two bananas

Oh and OP is buying 50KG speakers is he?

Like I said before they aren't a necessity.
 
While I did mention I wanted to purchase a surround sound I would happily purchase a soundstage if you think it is more sensible with the room and setup I have.

One question I have is if I was to move into a bigger room then which would be more sensible to buy keeping that in mind? I hope on moving very soon.
 
While I did mention I wanted to purchase a surround sound I would happily purchase a soundstage if you think it is more sensible with the room and setup I have.

One question I have is if I was to move into a bigger room then which would be more sensible to buy keeping that in mind? I hope on moving very soon.

Some people like to bicker....

Sound bar/bases are crap compared to a 5.1 setup.

Do yourself a favor and stick up a max budget. ;)
 
Did some searching and found the Denon AVR-X2300W with Q Acoustics 3000 speakers and cables for £879 or Denon AVR-X3200W with Q Acoustics 3000 speakers and cables for £939 on:
http://exceptional-av.co.uk/denon-avr-x2300w-w-q-acoustics-3000-5-1-speakers.html

http://exceptional-av.co.uk/denon-avr-x3200w-w-q-acoustics-3000-5-1-speakers.html

Is that a good price? There are other packages available on that website but.

Searching for second hand avrs on avforums I found a yamaha rx-v1073 (rx-v1020)
for £200 but it doesn't say how how it is and yamaha RX-V1073 (RX-A1020) for £380 but is 3 years old.
 
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Posts in this particular forum always seem to descend into bickering because certain posters are too overly aggressive in putting their opinions forward. At least its on topic I suppose :p

Can't really recommend specific receivers or speakers in that budget i'm afraid but a few things I would suggest.

Whatever receiver you do get make sure it has 4k60hz passthrough i.e. it has HDMI 2.0a+ or better ports. You may not have 4k yet but this feature is easily available on most cheap/newish receivers and will save you replacing in the future should you get a new TV which will 99% be 4k. It just simplifies things and isn't hard to come by.

Ability to decode HD audio TrueHD, Atmos, DTS-MA etc is desired, if you ever decided to upgrade the speakers again this would be beneficial - also most receivers made in the last 5 years can do this so would imagine it would be harder to find one without than with.

For your laminate floors if at all possible i'd recommend getting a nice big rug :D Even if its just in front of the front 3, it will reduce sound reflections which could create distortion. Also with the sub you could look into a platform to stick it on, you can either make one yourself fairly cheaply or purchase a pre made one but you will pay a premium such as the SubDude (http://www.auralex.com/product/subdude-ii/) something like that should reduce rattle and boominess of the sub but even a few well cut pieces of carpet or thick underlay attached together should help.

Don't spend loads on cables but don't go uber cheap. Van Damme Blue is recommended a lot, is reasonably priced and very rugged - however it is quite thick, thinner versions are available but it depends on your ability to hide the cables, obviously as laminate you can't really stick it down the side of the carpet.

Re the technical speak that can be very overwhelming. A little bit of simplification - certain AV receiver brands are known for having a certain 'type' of sound, whether it be a 'warm', 'sharp', 'clinical' or even 'neutral' sound. Speakers also have similar properties. So people have discovered certain brands work well with others, you don't really want a Warm sound receiver with Warm speakers otherwise certain things may not sound right in certain film scenes etc. Most AV retailer package deals you look at will likely be fairly well matched unless the retailer in question has a lot of stock of certain mismatched items to shift and doesn't care about their reputation!

The best recommendation is always to ring the store first if your able to get there (or even another more local store that only has a few of the items or even just brands your'e interested in) say that you are wanting to spend around £xxx and would like to come in for a listen to a few setups in that price rang. They should be accomodating although it may not be that day etc if you have to go to a store that doesn't have the actual stuff you want but just to have a listen to how they sound it doesn't matter if you just say 'i'm going to have a think, thanks'.

Lastly for the sub, don't be afraid to purchase a seperate sub not included in the package. I don't even own one but will always recommend BK Subs - http://www.bkelec.com/ especially in your price range their £200-£300 sub's tend to perform as well or better than sub's twice their price. You can order one to your exact specs or simply go onto their ebay store and have a look at their pre-made ones. Something like the XLS200 would be the right level. These are about £330 so it's whether you can fit it in, its not a necessity and if you haven't had a proper 5.1 setup before you may be perfectly happy with the included sub's in the packages you are looking at but bass is not about how boomy it is but how quick, clean and sharp it can be.

Best of luck with your decision :)
 
Did some searching and found the Denon AVR-X2300W with Q Acoustics 3000 speakers and cables for £879 or Denon AVR-X3200W with Q Acoustics 3000 speakers and cables for £939 on:
http://exceptional-av.co.uk/denon-avr-x2300w-w-q-acoustics-3000-5-1-speakers.html

http://exceptional-av.co.uk/denon-avr-x3200w-w-q-acoustics-3000-5-1-speakers.html

Is that a good price? There are other packages available on that website but.

Searching for second hand avrs on avforums I found a yamaha rx-v1073 (rx-v1020)
for £200 but it doesn't say how how it is and yamaha RX-V1073 (RX-A1020) for £380 but is 3 years old.

Personally I would go with the Denon 3200 pack. It is the better deal with the better amp and cabling at a very good price in my opinion. It has 4K/60Hz full-rate pass-through on all inputs, Atmos, All the support file types etc you would expect.

The only thing you would need to add is the speaker brackets or floor stands depending on preference.
 
Im afraid ive got to agree with Sonny on this one.

Room size doesn't dictate if a surround sound system or a soundbase is suitable....you can have a surround sound system in a small lounge with no problems and still get the same effect.

The OP asked for a surround sound system which suggests a 5 speaker system.

Its more a point of if rear speaker sound is important or not.

If rear speaker sound is important then a 5.1 system is the only way to go, if it isn't then go ahead and consider a soundbar/base.

Obviously convenience and ease of setup is another thing entirely but the op simply asked for a budget surround system not a soundbase.

Sorry but that simply isn't true in that there is a reason that the manufactures specify a recommended room size. Now yes people do not always follow this and certainly if they really want the full surround effect but sometimes the trade off isn't worth the cost compared to spending the monies on a stereo setup that would work better overall.

Now the OP room is good for satellites but a little small for anything more. Further to that though he has mentioned a larger room possible so satellites would still be my thought overall then rather than the soundbase.

Other part that is also noted is that ideally the rear speakers should sit at least 1m rear to that of the listeners head. If the OP is sitting on a bed then they will be against a wall where the rear speakers are likely to be which isn't ideal.

You can test that premise at home easy enough or in a demo room by moving the seating position directly to the rear wall and then move forward again as you noticed the difference in the way you hear the sound. However of course there are caveats in that of course things are more advance and the auto-setup and delay system etc can work well to help eliminate that to a degree.

Again a lot of my suggest are of course optimum which often isn't the case however I do feel starting with the grounding that the system will be compromised compared to these optimums.

I hope the OP isn't feeling too lost.

Also overall Richeh post is really good and got some handy info in it for you :) the rug especially.
 
Crikey, what a wide array of opinions on here!

Even more shocking, took a while before he was asked his room dimensions and also I can’t see anyone asking him what the split of listening will be. A real key factor in recommending any kind of home cinema setup to somebody.

Few key things;

  • Sounds bars are great, we have a Yamaha one in our bedroom. They will not give you the same kind of experience as a 5.1, even in a small room. The likes of Yamaha do a great job at throwing sound to create a surround “experience” – it isn’t the same though. I know, I’ve got a direct comparison with one upstairs and a 5.1 KEF 3005SE setup in our living room.
  • Room size could be a consideration for a sound bar over a 5.1, personally I’d prefer to spend my money on a 5.1 purely as it’s something you carry with you a long time. Who is to say your room size may not change in the future? Yes in a small room and limited ability to correctly position your 5.1 speakers the differences between a sound bar and 5.1 will be less apparent.. But it’ll still be noticeable.
  • What is the primary thing you’ll listen to or care about the most? For example, if you watch allot more movies than you do listen to music I’d suggest style type / satellite over bookshelf speakers (Especially due to your room limitations). If music is the primary concern, the bookshelf speakers are going to be a better buy.

I have a Samsung UE55KS7000 with a Denon X2300W and KEF 3005SE 5.1 (Adding 2 KEF ceiling speakers soon for Atmos)

Previously I’ve owned the KEF T205, Q Acoustic 3000 and 2000 series and flipped between Yamaha and Denon AV Receivers as they typically have a “warmer” sound.

Initially I started with Q Acoustic Bookshelf style speakers, then moved onto KEF Style sets as primarily I watch movies and despite having a well sized living room I prefer a more discrete looking setup which doesn’t take a huge amount of room.

Second-hand is a great way to snap up AV gear – as recommended by somebody else on here. Especially as your budget is limited. You’re going to have trouble getting a style speaker set with an AV Receiver within your budget, well at least good one.. If you can stretch though and keep checking eBay, I’d recommend the following

  • KEF 3005SE
  • Monitor Audio MASS
  • Q Acoustic Q7000

Probably looking at £400-£500 second hand for the above, sometimes less. So you'll probably want to increase your budget to £700 (Perhaps £800) to include a decent AV Receiver.

Bookshelf wise, as you’ve probably guessed by peoples suggestions. Q Acoustics are pretty popular – that reputation is well earned aswell. Any 2000 or 3000 set is going to do you well.. To be honest, you won't get better without upping your budget and looking at the likes of the Dali Zensor or KEF Q series.

As always, with ANY home cinema consideration. Go and demo it. Sound is a highly subjective thing.
 
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