Recording 1-2-1s with Line Managers

[Freefaller]

Hi all,

A friend has asked me this and I'm no expert.

He wants to start recording his 1-2-1s with his LM as he keeps getting messed around on his objectives and getting excluded from meetings.

As long as he asks for permission and is given consent there's no issues with recording and then saving that recording to a personal device is there? I told him I'd ask around, and told him to phone his EAP advisors.

Or is there something more nuanced going on? Fortunately at my level pretty much all meetings are recorded and minuted - but I don't really know what to advise him at that sort of middle management level.

I guess the other thing he could do is minute the meeting and email them and as long as there's no response consider it as "approved"?

 

[swillsy]

This is a terrible idea - what would your friend say if his line manager asked if it's ok if he started to record everything in the workplace out of the blue? - maybe miffed?

If he's concerned about being messed about in 1-2-1s etc then they should try and subtly (as possible) summarize the 1-2-1 after each one and send it on an email to his boss afterwards as a way of recording/controlling the agenda. However this approach is pretty passive aggressive to.

..But you're friend really needs to start looking for a new position tbh

 

[Rroff]

As above they either need to take it up with their line manager, someone above their line manager and/or ER/HR or find another job, it isn't going to get any better.

 

[Orangeade]

Sounds utterly bizarre!

1-2-1 meetings are meant to be 2 way streets where you catch up with subordinates or your boss and where you go over topics to ensure guidance on day to day, mid term topic catch ups and ensure that conversations at half year and EOY performance don't come as a surprise...

It shouldn't be adversarial and even minutes are unnecessary unless there are performance issues etc.

Sounds like your friend has no respect from his LM and thus doing weird **** like recording it will make no difference.

I would look as to why this is the problem first, why is he 'really' not invited to meetings, why is objectives changing? Might be tricky but might be learning involved..... if it then cannot be explained or resolved amicably then I would raise as a complaint to HR as it sounds like a breach of code of conduct for most places.

But recording is just....weird.

 

[throwaway4372]

time to find a new job imo

this is what happens when a manager has no intention of giving you progress, or doesn't have the authority to. recording them won't make a difference, and they won't agree to it anyway because why should they.

 

[Jim99]

That's nuts.

If he's getting messed around on objectives, he should be writing an email afterwards summarising what they've agreed and asking for any corrections if he's misunderstood.

What's he even supposed to do with a recording? Whip it out 2 months down the line and play a 15 seconds snippet for HR to prove he's right about something?

 

[throwaway4372]

Whip it out 2 months down the line

yeah, assert dominance, I like it.

 

[Doughnut007]

That's nuts.

If he's getting messed around on objectives, he should be writing an email afterwards summarising what they've agreed and asking for any corrections if he's misunderstood.

What's he even supposed to do with a recording? Whip it out 2 months down the line and play a 15 seconds snippet for HR to prove he's right about something?

This.

You write a summary email and send it asking them to advise you if anything has been misunderstood.

Then you have your paper trail.

 

[Freefaller]

Yeah reading back your comments it does seem pretty weird - I just needed to hear it from other people!

I think I will say to him, either write down the actions and email them to his boss afterwards, or quite frankly start to look for another job. It does seem pretty toxic

Couldn't imagine being that frustrated to start doing that.

 

[uber soldat]

yeah, assert dominance, I like it.

Don't forget to take up the boxing stance.

 

[Stu999]

If it’s gotten to the stage where you want to do this then get a new job.

 

[Slam62]

Welcome to the corporate world of saying stuff but never intending to actually do it, it comes as a shock to those who say what they mean and intend to do.

 

[Freefaller]

Welcome to the corporate world of saying stuff but never intending to actually do it, it comes as a shock to those who say what they mean and intend to do.

He's not much younger than me, so it's quite a surprise to me. I mean I've never not delivered stuff regardless of what the company policy or line manager's behaviours were, but I have a fair bit of gumption about me and am not a conformist... although it has landed me into hot water in the past.

 

[Pudney]

Ignoring the valid points made as a point there’s no law preventing someone making secret recordings for their personal use.

So in theory your friend can covertly record meetings.

 

[Freefaller]

Ignoring the valid points made as a point there’s no law preventing someone making secret recordings for their personal use.

So in theory your friend can covertly record meetings.

I don't want to encourage him to do things like that... I'd rather he sorted things out or found himself in a better situation/job. I'll try and get more context from him. However you've all highlighted the issue that I think I was being too "safe" to come up with myself.

 

[Pudney]

Slightly more helpfully if your friend is getting stressed or anxious about these meetings then it can be useful to record and then prepare a written summary to share after the event with the recording to help prepare that summary in less stressful circumstances.

Or get another job.

 

[Freefaller]

Slightly more helpfully if your friend is getting stressed or anxious about these meetings then it can be useful to record and then prepare a written summary to share after the event with the recording to help prepare that summary in less stressful circumstances.

Or get another job.

I've told him that he should just start to minute his meetings, and send them to his boss. Start to review them during his 1-2-1s. If he gets some ****, he can say "well I sent you the minutes and you didn't say no to any of them...". I just want him to cover his arse and not do anything stupid. I have told him to look for new opportunities. The thing is he likes where he works (he works for a tech firm that supplies manufacturing plants) and he gets to meet lots of people and actually has been doing really well, he's just trying to improve/do more/go beyond etc... and he just feels held back or that he's being undermined.

I suppose an alternative is to ask to work for another LM? But that could make it awkward within the business (It's not a huge business).

It's tough to like the work but hate your boss!

 

[Pudney]

It’s a difficult one, particularly when the actual hurdles aren’t clear. It could be.a generic bad LM, it could be an LM who doesn’t like delivering bad news (e.g. you’re good but there isn’t a commercial need for what you want to do), or it could be internal politics that the LM is trying to navigate.

Documenting and reflecting on past minutes is a good starting point, harder to get gaslighted at least!

 

[dowie]

He wants to start recording his 1-2-1s with his LM as he keeps getting messed around on his objectives and getting excluded from meetings.

[...]

I guess the other thing he could do is minute the meeting and email them and as long as there's no response consider it as "approved"?

This is a bit vague tbh.. mate. Messed around how? Are they asserting that he's missed some objectives they set? Are they claiming they claiming he was due to carry out some tasks/meet some other objectives he's saying he was unaware of? Are they changing objectives continually? I guess the latter is something he'd need to suck up so long as they can acknowledge prior work and that objectives were changed after he'd be working on other things or towards different goals.

Are these annual, monthly or weekly meetings?

Annual objectives ought to be put in writing for sure, I can certainly see a weekly or monthly meeting not necessarily having minutes/notes though and just being a brief thing.

Openly recording could come off as a bit weird and discretely recording is the sort of thing people might do in advance of a tribunal, by all means if he can do it totally discretely and as a personal record do it but I'd not advertise the fact.

One thing he might consider doing, rather than just emailing a meeting summary, is just to drop a weekly update e-mail to his manager say each Friday, just a brief few lines or bullet points checking off his progress on whatever things he's working on, and maybe the odd comment about stuff the manager needs to chase perhaps [X still outstanding, still waiting for Y from Z team, have chased are you able to escalate?] etc.. and then in the bottom part of the email perhaps mention the objectives and which are met, in progress, ongoing etc...

That might help solve his issues, just being visibly productive if there are issues between him and the manager - does the manager know what he's been doing day to day? Like say these objectives are monthly and he's updating this weekly email and showing progress towards them then at the next month the manager is like "oh what about issues B and C" well he's sent 4 emails during the past month showing exactly what he's been working on with the objectives at the bottom and maybe [completed] and [in progress] , [to be done] etc.. next to the objectives and the manager hasn't said anything by then??? Perhaps that regular email then means that sort of thing would be less likely for that to happen - even if the manager is disorganised and this new task/objective comes in mid-month and he forgets he's not told your mate about it.. well they've got this regular email now and they can both refer back to it at the next 1 to 1 meeting. And before that meeting, the manager may well see on one of the emails that matey isn't working on the thing he's going to ask about next week and then realise he's unaware of it and mention it to him.

 

[Freefaller]

I'll need to find out the details can't say I have been given a huge amount of information and not having been there I'm having to join the dots a little.

Some really good comments @dowie thank you. Let me chat to him and get his perspective.