Recruiting new staff

I agree with this.

A general developer can learn a language, however there are aspects of development such as security that require a secondary thread of knowledge. Recently I was working with quantum information scientists - they research the maths that feed into algorithms for quantum cryptography. Security IT such as CISO and down need confirmation of knowledge (certifications) for risk management, but in the end they are broad cybersecurity unlike the very specific R&D in that area.
Digital transformation (lipstick on the pig) doesn't require a plethora of degrees, however applying development to scientific computing, chemicals or material research modelling etc, does require an understanding of the field of application.

Having written target operating models and build devops teams, I would say that there is a mindset and skills associated with devops but (sorry to say) it's not rocket science. Like machine learning, the tools and languages anyone can pick up but the fundamental statistical maths and subject matter requires training (ie doing FFTs and not considering spectral leakage due to ignorance). Too many people claim to know tools and libraries - but they don't know the foggiest what they're doing with them.

It would actually be quite interesting to see a breakdown of some of these fields who have/don't have a degree - for example security I know in my experience specifically for red teams, there's generally been very few degrees required as it suits the people who aren't necessarily interested in education, but gained their interest in other ways. Things like algorithms are another interesting one, I see a lot of people taking a huge interest in algorithms outside of Universities nowadays, much more so than 10+ years ago, because of the nature of everyone and their dog copying the FAANG interview process these days of whiteboarding algorithmic and data structure problems, despite probably some crazy statistical number never needing to write a custom bubble sort in their career, but there will always be edge cases. Scientific Computing is an interesting one too - I wonder how many go with a traditional Comp Sci or CSE degree rather than say a Biochemistry degree. I do agree they're probably more likely to require degrees for those fields.

You mention ML and doing things like FFTs, and yeah You'll learn FFTs in a Comp Sci degree, but you probably have to question out of 100 people who did a degree who has ever used a FFT in their career, and again something that should be able to be picked up on the job, unless you get a Grad who has just come out of Uni or something who is interested in the pure maths side of things, let's be honest they're going to have to look FFTs and other advanced Maths up all over again. You're 100% correct though, too many people do claim to know tool and libraries and products without the foggiest of information, interviewed a Principle VMware Engineer a while back who couldn't tell me how vMotion worked, so I see that in my side of the world too. He was degree educated too, but that's a product you don't generally see on degrees so irrelevant.
 
I'm mainly looking at from an IT point of view. Almost all different types of IT jobs now require a plethora of specialist degrees and qualifications not just developer's.

I don't think so, the big US tech firms, various startups and places like the consulting arms of large accounting firms etc.. don't require degrees.

Check out some of the big coding boot camp companies for example and the employers they list on their websites.

Having written target operating models and build devops teams, I would say that there is a mindset and skills associated with devops but (sorry to say) it's not rocket science. Like machine learning, the tools and languages anyone can pick up but the fundamental statistical maths and subject matter requires training (ie doing FFTs and not considering spectral leakage due to ignorance). Too many people claim to know tools and libraries - but they don't know the foggiest what they're doing with them.

Yup very true, though those roles are often more than just developer roles.

In the research arm of a big tech firm you might have say: software engineers, research engineers and research scientists

The software engineers might well have no hard requirements other than being competent at programming as per the rest of the company, research engineers would typically need specialist domain knowledge from an MSc or PhD and research scientists would typically need at least a PhD or sometimes postdoc experience or more too.

In finance, I guess quants (or strats or researchers) and quant developers are the equivalents of research scientists and research engineers respectively.

Its very hard to get this experience, with a degree or even know you like this area without some exposure to it.
I think there's a lack of willingness train people up, which I just feel its a bit hypocritical if Companies are complaining they can't people with the specific skillsets they want.

Sure the specialist areas will need a degree but it's not necessarily the sort of thing that lends itself to training within companies - corporate training might involve some small in-house training team and hiring external trainers or sending people on short courses. I think your gripe there is somewhat misplaced.

One company I worked at did have an in-house training/education team though their main thing was training the clients and external consultancy firms on our products, they earned a decent revenue doing this and internal staff/new hires could just piggyback on the next set of courses/lectures along with the external attendees.

External training could be things like a scrum expert coming in to coach/help a team transition to that methodology or maybe individuals getting sent on an external course* for a week - like a general leadership course or some project management course or some technical vendor-specific traning.

It's rather different to say expecting a company to simply train you up on something that would otherwise be learned in an undergrad STEM degree or specialist master's course. IIRC Amazon does have a bunch of internal machine learning lectures which they've made public but stuff like the things NickK has said mentioned, you're probably not going to learn about Fourier transforms via inhouse training, you learn that stuff in say an applied maths or engineering degree etc..

*one of my mates was a prolific shagger and always demanded an external 1-week course in his annual review - always a few 20-30 something single women or indeed women happy to be away from their boyfriend/husband for a week and often plenty of alcohol involved.
 
I would define a degree as a wide confirmation of knowledge certification, the issue is every university has a varying subject set and a varying level of grading. Within 3-7 years the degree has principles that may be current but there's nothing that maintains that understanding in a swift moving industry or research. The exception is industry sponsored postdocs. Now compare that to a periodically repeating industry certification that provides confirmation of knowledge of the current state of play within a 1-2 year time lag - looking specifically at project/programme or security certifications.

An undergraduate degree does bring someone up to the level of speaking the language, understanding the basic concepts. Masters is guided work and PhD is open guided work either that the professor knows will bring money via industry sponsorship, or will bring qudos and open up accelerator-based startup opportunities.

As part of my little stint of five months putting together recommendations on quantum for the group chief-of-staff to unlock strategic investment, I learnt a lot about the relationships between industry and university and how to build that into organisation strategy, furthered by working in the cutting edge research/quantum cybersecurity.

Only issue now is that experience scares the crap out of recruiters :D
 
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Applied yesterday, agent sends email says closing today and could we talk @0940. I managed to pick up message at 1430 whist finally managing to eat lunch.. the phone is lifted and dropped back down. Emailed him and made a polite suggestion to ping me when he’s free. Stone wall silence..

if you want to close before the BH weekend think of your customers.. And employers looking for staff wonder why potential hires are annoyed when they want to talk..
 
If a company won't talk about salary, you don't want to work there.
100% for the most part unless it's a particularly interesting role I won't engage further anymore unless I know the salary range prior to going down the path of applying and interviewing. There's zero point in wasting everyone time if the salary expectations don't fit on both sides.
 
Applied yesterday, agent sends email says closing today and could we talk @0940. I managed to pick up message at 1430 whist finally managing to eat lunch.. the phone is lifted and dropped back down. Emailed him and made a polite suggestion to ping me when he’s free. Stone wall silence..

if you want to close before the BH weekend think of your customers.. And employers looking for staff wonder why potential hires are annoyed when they want to talk..
Ultra-rare double June bank holiday and end of month target-smashing to celebrate. Them Jagerbombs ain't gonna drink themselves you know...
 
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