Red Bull to use Honda Engines...

Seems reasonable, Toro Rosso have done alright with Honda so far for their first year. With the main teams larger budget + experience team heads, I reckon they could put a serious challenge on for the title.
 
No brainer really given how unreliable Renault have been this year while still down on power from Ferrari/Merc plus a boatload of yen from Japan to sweeten the deal.
 
Spunkey said:
Time to really put McLaren to shame. They can't match Red Bull with the same Renault engines, now Red Bull seem likely to beat them with the old 'GP2' engine.
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Indeed given that:
Red Bull discovered from the start of this season that the performance disparity between the Renault and Honda engines was nothing like as big as McLaren had said.
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A bit of a no-brainer really, given how Honda appear to be making quicker progress than Renault (and might even be ahead in terms of power now).

Honda were still poor last season, that much was obvious, but judging by this season McLaren were holding them back just as much.

Expect Alonso to Indy, Norris to McLaren (surprised they haven't let him get some experience in a smaller team this season, but time yet) Ricciardo to stay at RB (he has no other options) and Red Bull to stay pretty much where they are, mixing it with Mercedes and Ferrari. Sainz will stay at Renault (he's just insurance in case Ricciardo decided to leave).

The Toro Rosso deal last season looked stupid on the surface, but it was a masterstroke by Red Bull.
 
this_is_gav said:
The Toro Rosso deal last season looked stupid on the surface, but it was a masterstroke by Red Bull.
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Don't think i'd agree with that. RB were hedging their bets - stick the works engine in the junior team, and if it turns out ok, then they have the option of putting it in the lead outfit too. Otherwise, they've still got the Renault.

It was no lose for RB. Unlike McLaren, who had all their eggs in with Honda. And suffered rather from their own hubris (and also from not having direct data to compare with, like RB do).
 
Wonder what excuses Mclaren will start thinking up now when Red Bull start beating them with the 'gp2' engine they loved to blame, Doesn't come as a shock after the abuse Red Bull started giving Renault regarding the engine.
 
cheesyboy said:
Don't think i'd agree with that. RB were hedging their bets - stick the works engine in the junior team, and if it turns out ok, then they have the option of putting it in the lead outfit too. Otherwise, they've still got the Renault.

It was no lose for RB. Unlike McLaren, who had all their eggs in with Honda. And suffered rather from their own hubris (and also from not having direct data to compare with, like RB do).
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That's what I meant by "on the surface". ;)
 
Makes sense for redbull.
Even though I'm a Renault team supporter I love Honda (drive a Honda) and they seem to be making big improvements compared to Renault.
I hope they do well. I do like redbull overall. Often they are the only team to make the racing remotely interesting this year.

Wou love to see a Honda works team.
But I can' wwatch f1 from next year anyway with it going to Sky.
 
Fact is, you can hardly compare the "GP2" engine with a 2019 Honda. I'm convinced that if McLaren had stuck with Honda they'd have got something reliable and faster by 2019.

They rushed in a new engine manufacturer and didn't compromise on the "size zero" philosophy which bit them. All the data that RB will have from Toro Rosso will pay dividends when it comes to their design... something McLaren didn't.
 
Big fail from McLaren.

413x said:
Wou love to see a Honda works team.
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Considering Honda became Brawn (which was a really dumbed down version of the original Honda and look at what that achieved) which became Mercedes, they must be kicking themselves - especially given how much money they have ended up sinking into F1 anyway.
 
Shots fired :)

Masahi Yamamoto said:
“As a starting point, we do not want to see Red Bull Racing’s performance drop below its current level. But our target is to go further and do better than they are doing at the moment,” Yamamoto said.

“It is one of the top team. It has won several championships and this year too it has already won some races. In addition, it is also obvious that they have a very good chassis and this means we’ll have better chances of winning races.
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https://www.crash.net/f1/news/899137/1/honda-red-bull-starting-point-not-drop-below-current-level
 
Inside knowledge at Honda is Honda wanted out with McLaren and hook up with Red Bull, for two reasons; McLaren are very difficult to work with and secondly Red Bull are based in Milton keynes and Honda have their F1 operation bases in Milton keynes too, which has a massive advantage in partnership.
 
I said when McLaren split that it was a bad idea. The Honda engine at the start of 2017 was as good as a brand new engine with zero development time. They were going to have issues, Honda knew it, but McLaren wanted miracles. Now they're circa £100m down in funding from last year (Renault engines + Alonso's wages which were paid by Honda + Honda input) have a worse engine than the Honda will likely be (it's an engine that's 18m old if that so still plenty of development potential) and be down on funding too. Foolish Zac and the rest of the McLaren board and management.

There's also talk of rebellion at McLaren with a great many staff very unhappy at the state of the team and the management and actively pitching for Martin Whitmarsh to return as well.
 
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