Refinement is boring?

It's not exactly old but I adore my s2000

No tc, not stability control or all that, you put your foot down to sharp on a slippery corner you will be in a field (i was lol but I dug it out)

I do not want electronic steering, tc, etc etc the less the better, nothing like feeling the back end going and the feedback through the wheel (z4 has electronic steering as iI understand so didn't want one)

Mx5 sounds a good fit. Personally I don't like the look
 
R420LA6X2/4MNA said:
Hmm, I think I'd far rather something like an e39 M5 than any 80's hot hatch / performance icon, perhaps it's my age (41), maybe it's because an e39 can still feel like a go-cart after a week driving an HGV....

Having driven a few lairy & very powerful Sierra Cosworths for example, give me the refinement of the later BMW every time.

The Sierra is lighter, and more raw as such, but the M5 gives both refinement and great driving fun.

And that's coming from somebody who hero worshiped the Sierra back in the mid 80's when it was King.
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There's a point that this comparison misses though, which is that its not just a question of refinement but also performance. Both of the cars you mention are very quick indeed.

The E39 M5 is pretty much the perfect car in that it's good at everything, yet I now have the sneaking suspicion I'd find it a bit OTT as it would make roads that would otherwise be fun to drive just plain normal because the car would just eat its way through them with no fuss regardless of how badly driven it was. Its just too good.
 
IMO "fun" should have enough fire power to fire you down the road convincingly and also enough (as said above) to make you think before you mash the pedal. i dont see any fun in a car you can stamp on pedals at random and rely on computers to sort you out (ABS and TC)

S2000 must be an ideal candidate really as it has enough grunt to fulfil those staple straight line thrills too
 
It must be an age thing. I used to have a modified 200Sx and used to fly around everywhere and had much fun. When I got the XF I had absolutely no interest in driving the 200 as it was too uncomfortable and noisy.
 
I have a mk6 Golf GTI for the family daily driver and it is lovely and refined. It is quiet, smooth, comfortable and reasonably quick. It is great for the family and has a lot of modern creature comforts inside.

But it's souless.

When I jump back in the Corrado it is noisy, rattly, bumpy, and feels old in comparison. But I love every minute of it. It's an experience just getting in it, starting it up, feeling the engine burble, turn on the music, slide the sunroof back and pull out of the drive. It's rough as hell on slow uneven roads but once making progress on sweeping roads it's an absolute pleasure to drive and you can feel the road through the pedals and steering wheel.

I wouldn't like to have it as my only car. But I feel like I'm driving it, wheras on modern cars I feel like I'm just a passenger even if sitting behind the wheel.
 
Lopéz said:
Kate is 32, and drives a Mk2 Gold GTI daily. She's done around 70,000 miles in it in around 4 years.
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now that is pretty good going

eventually the lack of torque and the lack of suspension in mine wore through the novelty and i had to move on

things like having to have sufficient revs to make sure you could make progress sort of ruined it
 
Jonnycoupe said:
Not really comparable cars though are they!
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The point was an e39 will offer a great driving experience, whilst being very refined...

I picked a Sierra Cossie as I've driven 400bhp examples of them and compared directly to an e39 M5 as tidy examples if both seem to go for similar prices...

One has performance and zero refinement, the other, both performance and refinement.

:)
 
Get a bike, then you realise what is fun and quick... but a sport 600/1000 isn't fun until you're doing 3 digits lose-your-license territory (unless it's a really windy slow road, do they even exist?)
 
I was in the market for a hot(ish) hatch recently. I chose the Twingo 133 over the Clio 197 for this exact reason. I found it much more fun at low speeds; the crashy, noisy ride all adds to it IMO :p I felt the Clio wasn't fun unless you were really pushing it, which isn't often compared to the normal grind. On top of that, there's the resentment each time you push the loud pedal as your fuel guage drops before your eyes, additional insurance costs etc
 
I can't cope with 'refinement' in my life. I need the driving experience and old cars are the only ones I've found that give me it. And you've not drifted until you've drifted a 65 year old Ford Pop on a wet roundabout, with the car leaning over at as many degrees as the engine has horsepower :D
 
Matt82 said:
there is so much truth in that its unreal

with my old Golf youd be able to thrash that car at 8/10 for miles on end

with the M3 you can bearly thrash the car on the road at all and you rarely get to get the revs up to the red.

it takes very little time at all to get to the top of 3rd by which point youre doing the best part of a ton which is completely impractical on a B road and if a copper spotted you doing that on the road in a bright red chavvy emmmfree-innit youd best start getting familiar with the bus time table

so modern stuff is much much faster but not necessary better
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this is why spaz on this forum is a bit of a winner, aye?
 
The most fun car I have owned was my saxo VTR followed closely by my 172 CUP, the fact that I could drive the VTR flat out everywhere and with good handling (IMO better than the Clio for mid corner adjustability) also in the wet go very very sideways around roundabouts with a sharp lift of my right foot.

The more powerful and heavier the car just means you cannot exploit it's full capabilities on the road and even on the track the fear of a 5 digit hole in your pocket front getting it wrong stops you pushing that little bit further and ******* your pants.
 
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Matt82 said:
now that is pretty good going

eventually the lack of torque and the lack of suspension in mine wore through the novelty and i had to move on

things like having to have sufficient revs to make sure you could make progress sort of ruined it
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Needed an 8v for some torque :p
 
Well, needless to say, the Elise is rather the dab hand when it comes to dishing out thrills. I thought the S3 was fun until I got the Lotus. In the current conditions (cold and wet) I know I would be able to go faster in the S3 but I'm having a lot more fun now! I know I'm comparing apples with oranges but the point is broadly the same. I'd hardly call the Elise refined...
 
LSPIII said:
Well, needless to say, the Elise is rather the dab hand when it comes to dishing out thrills. I thought the S3 was fun until I got the Lotus. In the current conditions (cold and wet) I know I would be able to go faster in the S3 but I'm having a lot more fun now! I know I'm comparing apples with oranges but the point is broadly the same. I'd hardly call the Elise refined...
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i would have got an exige had it not have been for the lack of anything! (at the time it was going to be my only car)
 
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