Relocating consumer unit

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Hi,

A ballpark type question for an electrician really.

We are starting to plan a kitchen refurb and our current Cu is in a cupboard in the kitchen. Its a bit of a pain as it makes a mess of that cupboard.

So ideally we would like to move it. It backs onto an internal wall, that we would ideally like to have the CU on the other side, the utility. Its a breeze block wall, plaster boarded on both sides.

So the question is is it possible and if so what sort of amount of work?
So questions really :
assuming its ok to move, would you just drill a decent hole, 40mm or something as the route to reroute the cables?
Assuming its possible, and assuming the cables are too short to just rewire into the box is it possible/reasonable to extend the rings to go through the wall.
The meter cupboard is on the outside wall, pretty much level with the CU, but lower down. So I would assume the meter to Cu cable being about 1.5 meters long could just be replaced.
IIRC we have 3 or 4 (I think 3) lighting rings, and 3 or 4 (I think 3 again) socket rings, plus a cooker circuit, a boiler connection, a fire alarm circuit etc. So assume 12 say.

If I was to get this done would we be looking at half a day, a day, more etc time.

Is it logical to replace the Cu at this time, they don't seem that expensive, so going to a latest gen would seem worth doing at the same time.

 

[Saytan]

Assuming its possible, and assuming the cables are too short to just rewire into the box is it possible/reasonable to extend the rings to go through the wall.

I'm not a spark, but this result in either a big pile of junction boxes, or pulling out/replacing chased in cables at some point with the associated making good, which could get expensive

if they're long enough to go to the new location though it shouldnt be a mega costly job.

 

[Gav_r26]

You are also making the monumental assumption that all the circuits in the house are good. If its an older house, when the CU is replaced and tested there could be any number of faults thrown up that will need rectifying before it can be signed off. My mate has just had this when he got the sparky we used for our renovation to change his CU. They found bad earths on lighting circuits, shoddy spurs etc. Its taken a good while to work through them all and rectify. This was in an 80's house so not that old really.

Got to love the old DIY'ers!

 

[200sols]

Its doable. I would get a sparky in to give you an idea but cables can be joined and extended. Bearing in mind they will be inaccessible so you cant just get some choc blocks or junction boxes and join the cables.

Not really sure why the consumer unit makes a mess of the cupboard, I have seen loads and they are usually screwed to the wall and take up very little space inside the units. Not worth the hassle or expense in my view, but its certainly possible.

 

[Jez]

Sounds like a really easy job to me, even if the cables have little slack, just mount the new CU higher up on the other side? (or lower down, i assumed that they'd be coming from the ceiling).

Assuming that you employ a competent person for the move, you could even just re-use everything and then you'd not need to get anything certified as such, as it would be clearly an old unit.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Its doable. I would get a sparky in to give you an idea but cables can be joined and extended. Bearing in mind they will be inaccessible so you cant just get some choc blocks or junction boxes and join the cables.

Not really sure why the consumer unit makes a mess of the cupboard, I have seen loads and they are usually screwed to the wall and take up very little space inside the units. Not worth the hassle or expense in my view, but its certainly possible.[/QUOTE

Its a mess because its right in the middle, of the cupboard. So its really hard to make use of the top half of the cupboard as its a modernish one so not particularly deep either.

I have no massive issue building a new unit round the CU. It would just make the cupboard more usable thats all really.

House is under 15 years old so I wouldn't have too many worries about failing electrics.
I will need a spark anyways as the cooker we will be moving to has 4x cavities and requires a 32amp connection, as we have currently a 16amp I am assuming the cable will be below what we need for 32 amp, so plan to open it all up and get a spark round to do an install before we tile etc. So will probably discuss in some detail then.
But reading up on acceptable extension etc its sounding like quite a lot for a minimal gain, so I think I am going to see if I can plan round the CU a bit to try to make the impact as low as possible.
I am planning cupboard up to the ceiling, rather than having a gap round the top. I would probably get that particular cupboard dry built so i can take it to pieces and modify as sympathetically as possible.

 

[Jez]

^ We posted at the same time, dont put up with this in your kitchen for what sounds like a really easy job. Agreed that you do not want to be extending the cables, but you can always mount the unit higher or lower to take into account the thickness of the wall.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Sounds like a really easy job to me, even if the cables have little slack, just mount the new CU on the other side.

You could even just re-use everything and then you'd not need to get anything certified as it would have always been there, right?

I dont know, going to defer and when we have started pulling out and its easier to be checked, then get a spark round. The distance between where it is mounted now and it would be is I guess around 6-9 inches, possibly slightly more. I could measure it there is a hole through the wall at ground level where the fridge water feed comes. Whether there is likely to be that much slack in the cables I have no idea.

I am starting to come to the thought its probably going to be half a day or so, reading up on acceptable ways to extend. Plus it was sort of a thought to renew the CU itself, but I think I may well just skip it.
Very rough plan is we may move on in 5-7 years anyway, so it seems a little unnecessary to replace.
Kitchen refurb plan is to go decent but not silly, so its going to be a cost vs benefit balance.

Just saw your other post. Yeah Im going to stick aside a "budget" of something like £250. If its going to be more than that is just not going to be worth it on balance, money will be better spent elsewhere. So will really come down to the spark and if its possible simply, and how quick he can be.

 

[Jez]

It'll be really easy for him if he doesnt need to extend the cables (by moving the unit up or down). I'd expect him to want a full day rate for it, though, whatever that is in your area.

 

[SimonR]

Moving a CU is notifiable work to the LABC. As I understand it your spark (if he is in a scheme) to Part 'P' it it would also need to comply with 18th Edition Regs, which would mean a compliant new metal CU and all of the circuits will require testing. I dont think that £250 is going to be anywhere near enough for this job, I paid more than that for a straight CU replacement at mate's rates. You are not only moving the CU and the circuit tails, but you will also need to move the incommer tails as well, which may not be so easy, depending where they come in. I would be budgeting at least £500 - £750 for this kind of work. Plus I would be getting an electrician in now, before you do anything so that they can help plan the work.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Moving a CU is notifiable work to the LABC. As I understand it your spark (if he is in a scheme) to Part 'P' it it would also need to comply with 18th Edition Regs, which would mean a compliant new metal CU and all of the circuits will require testing. I dont think that £250 is going to be anywhere near enough for this job, I paid more than that for a straight CU replacement at mate's rates. You are not only moving the CU and the circuit tails, but you will also need to move the incommer tails as well, which may not be so easy, depending where they come in. I would be budgeting at least £500 - £750 for this kind of work. Plus I would be getting an electrician in now, before you do anything so that they can help plan the work.

Thanks, bumped into works electrical manager on way out tonight who I thought was on holiday
He rekons I need a new CU, says i wont get a spark to move existing, but he says £125 budget is fine when I described what we had again (hes seen photos before when i was asking for advice on some other works). Says look in screwfix and match up what we have and there seem to be loads around that price. he can get me better for same or similar for cheaper when he next places a decent order from work, but he said issue may be sparks want to supply as they mark up to make extra money.
Otherwise he said tails from meter will likely be long enough, they don't like to make them short or trim too much, but worst case I mentioned what Jez said and he say yes drop it 6 inches and they should be fine anyway.
The rest he said probably 50% would need extending and 50% not.
Don't think I am going to bother now, its very little benefit for a load of work.

Thanks for the comments though everyone

 

[200sols]

Sounds like a really easy job to me, even if the cables have little slack, just mount the new CU higher up on the other side? (or lower down, i assumed that they'd be coming from the ceiling).

Assuming that you employ a competent person for the move, you could even just re-use everything and then you'd not need to get anything certified as such, as it would be clearly an old unit.

It will be a new installation, will need to comply with latest regs. Can’t just mount lower, CU will be too close to floor assuming it is currently in a base unit. Its not a hard job, but will take more time than you think.

as we have currently a 16amp I am assuming the cable will be below what we need for 32 amp

Probably will be new cabling but should be easy as CU is in kitchen near to cooker.

Worth considering where your appliance sockets will be placed, sockets in units may be preferred to FCUs ruining your tiling etc.

 

[Jez]

I pictured it in a high level, which are usually quite tall units where there would likely be loads of leeway on the other side to take up the typical 100mm shortfall on the cable. It is potentially an easy job, i dont know why people here are complicating it.

If you move the current one, i do not agree that it needs to be notified. If anyone can show me within the part P building regs where this is notifiable then i will concede, however as someone experienced in building regs, i do not agree at this point and neither do my LABC inspectors. I only bring this up as I actually have practical experience in this, having moved a couple of consumer units as part of wider building works on a couple of my own houses.

 

[Jez]

Moving a CU is notifiable work to the LABC. As I understand it your spark (if he is in a scheme) to Part 'P' it it would also need to comply with 18th Edition Regs, which would mean a compliant new metal CU and all of the circuits will require testing. I dont think that £250 is going to be anywhere near enough for this job, I paid more than that for a straight CU replacement at mate's rates. You are not only moving the CU and the circuit tails, but you will also need to move the incommer tails as well, which may not be so easy, depending where they come in. I would be budgeting at least £500 - £750 for this kind of work. Plus I would be getting an electrician in now, before you do anything so that they can help plan the work.

If you actually read part P, then you'll see how little requires notification (you would be amazed how many people seemingly do not actually take time to read the documentation, and simply listen to tradespeople).

Of course it would be nice to replace it, and have it notified, in an ideal world he will do this, but he doesn't have to, at least as far as my LABC inspectors and I interpret the regs

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Its about 6 foot up I would say to the very bottom of the CU, and apparently the recommended height is now around 4.5-5 foot as this is to aid with people with limited mobility, disabled etc And you can get lcokable ones to avoid tamperign kids for example
My other half for instance cannot access it as its in the the cupboard which means you need to be taller to access it than if it wasnt in the cupboard (middle shelf which it "sits on sticks out) so a direct diagonal line from normal arm level is raised to about 6 foot then across. I can reasonably easily flip them but due to fllor cabinets and wall cabinet I would say anyone under about 5ft9" wouldn't be able to reach without tip toes or standing on something. Hardly accessible especially if dark and its tripped and its in the back of a cupboard with stuff around it!

 

[SimonR]

If you actually read part P, then you'll see how little requires notification (you would be amazed how many people seemingly do not actually take time to read the documentation, and simply listen to tradespeople).

Of course it would be nice to replace it, and have it notified, in an ideal world he will do this, but he doesn't have to, at least as far as my LABC inspectors and I interpret the regs

If he is disconnecting it from the existing wiring, moving it and reconnecting it, then is it not a new erection? New erection's AFAIK are notifiable. Or do you see it differently?

 

[Jez]

If he is disconnecting it from the existing wiring, moving it and reconnecting it, then is it not a new erection? New erection's AFAIK are notifiable. Or do you see it differently?

Yeah, I definitely do The regulation wording does not include moving items. I had the same “argument” with the LABC inspector who agreed with me after we actually read the wording. Remember, extending circuits outside designated zones are never notifiable regardless of the size of that extension or the items on them.

Clearly in an ideal world you wouldn’t move a crusty old dated board, in my case I was simply moving 3-4 year old 17th edition items which I was totally loathed to upgrade to 18th. Common sense to be used as with everything really

 

[200sols]

After looking it up Jez is right, installation of a new CU is notifiable, but you could move the existing one yourself with no need to notify.