Renovating a w/c room - studding out walls and tiling floors

[Buffman]

Hi all,

Similar to other thread thought I could document below and give some pics.

Its going to be a tiled floor and painted walls.

Studding out waste pipe wall
thinking of studding out the wall to hide waste pipework - means entire wall will be flat rather than a small boxing for waste pipework at low level.

I know a plasterer already and would be getting him to do the back wall by the window regardless, so once i get the wall boxed in I suspect it will cost very little (maybe £100) which I think will be worth it.

The current dot and dab is approx 25mm deep.

I would stud out 38mm (to capture the 32mm wastepipe) then 12.5mm plasterboard on top, so losing about 20mm on the wall side.

Any issue with a 32mm waste rather than 40mm?


Floor tiling
I was going peel off all the tiles
Fill and deep holes/punctures from tile removal (it's a concrete sub floor)

Liquid sika damp proof membrane (effectively paints the floor) - I don't believe any primer is required after this for Levelling?
Self Levelling compound (any recommended?)

Tiling - anyone recommend any of the "Levelling clips"?



Pictures

This is before but id already removed the pub tier horrible toilet seat










As you can see the door has been moved, I also got rid of the pullcord and instead the light is triggered by a microwave switch (similar to PIR)







This length of waste pipe boxed protrudes approx 110mm into the room (unnecessarily as its only a 40mm waste?)

 

[Buffman]

35mm for whb 42mm for bath or shower, you might be lucky and be able to sink the pipe further into the wall so you won’t have to build it out so much

Whb?

The wall behind it is a brick load bearing wall, and whilst I would be able to chase it out, I believe long horizontal chases is a bad idea structurally.

 

[Buffman]

Wash hand basin

Ah cool, I looked on building regs and says 32mm OK for hand basin so I presume 35 was a typo?

Also, I'll have to consider/check building regs for a small fall across the pipe. Does it matter if there's a vertical drop both at the sink end and at the other end before going out the wall?

 

[Buffman]

You might be luck and have thick plaster that you can remove to get the pipe close to the wall then frame above and below so plasterboard sits against the pipe so you don’t have to build the wall out too much, also you might be lucky with the joists and be able to take the pipe under the floor and out

Concrete floor unfortunately, I did ask my plumber about breaking out the floor but he suggested as it's an old cast iron pipe with unknown sweep it would be a lot of excavation for little return.

For info, the current opening between the walls is around 890mm and if I did stud it out I'd expect it to be 860mm so wouldn't be significant loss.

 

[Buffman]

Should i primer and level out small patches like this prior to using a liquid DPM (sika dpm) on a concrete floor?

Then after dpm go straight to tiling if it's sufficiently level?

Or liquid screed it all after it's been DPMd? It's pretty damn flat/level already but I could try get 1mm of so latex screed?

Any recommended products? Already bought the dpm


Any thoughts @200sols ?

 

[Buffman]

How far out is that floor? It doesn't look like much but hard to tell. If it is a few dips I'd just fill them with a bit of tile adhesive either when or prior to tiling.

Why are you using a dpm product anyway?

Aye it seems fairly Bob on the floor, maybe a mm or so out on a 1.8m level. So I believe with self Levelling clips could be sound?

I do have some spare fast set tile adhesive so I could just primer those spot sections multiple times then put in some tile adhesive.

Im using a dpm as its an older property, with concrete floors without a damp proof course (it does have have engineering bricks to the perimeter). I believe its fairly standard for any concrete floor.


Do you recommend any of those Levelling clips?

I also need to work out where to get some slow set tile adhesive (my tiler who did other bits recommended slow set adhesive l

 

[Buffman]

I use perfect level master.

Slowest certainly easier yeah, I use ultra adhesives myself. https://www.protilertools.co.uk/pro...-standard-set-flexible-s1-adhesive-white-20kg

Cool thanks,

Did you use the setting tool as well or just set them by hand?

Perfect Level Master PLM T-LOCK 3mm Levelling System Medium 6-14mm Clips (Choice Of Bag Size)

Perfect Level Master PLM T-LOCK 3mm Levelling System Medium 6-14mm Clips (Choice Of Bag Size) from Pro Tiler Tools, a leading supplier of Tile Levelling Clips in the UK. Free UK delivery on most orders over £199 net, order online today.

www.protilertools.co.uk

The tiles I've got recommend a 3mm grout line so use 3mm clips?

Swoon Mix Decor Patterned Tile

When it comes to interiors, pattern is the new plain - we're all about decorating with confidence and rewriting the rulebook.So with that in mind, let us...

www.porcelainsuperstore.co.uk

Also I currently have a 8mm by 8mm Square trowel, which I understand from the below gives a 4mm bed of adhesive, possibly not necessary if the floor is pretty flat and could go for a 6*6 trowel and a thinner bed of adhesive? 3mm?

Trowel: Choose the Right Size For You

Once we’ve learnt how to measure the tile trowel size, it is time to keep going on our tiling placement job!

www.rubi.com

 

[Buffman]

Thought I wouldn't need to level this section but realise the previous leveller used felt hollow/was coming up fairly easily, so I knocked all the old sections out and only some sections left that are well bonded.

Primered (going to do multiple coats)

Then going to self level
Then damp proof membrane
Then tiling


Just made a 300 quid order for some tools, leveller, adhesives...

Not sure if I'm going to break down the wall on the right to try hide the waste pipe. A lot of effort for limited returns possibly.

 

[Buffman]

I infact used 3 coats of sika rapid rpm prior to tiling. You cast kiln dried sand into the last coat to aid the grab



Doesn’t feel like 300 quid of gear this.





Self levelled the floor tonight…I hope it’s fairly flat/level




Would it be best to start at the awkward cuts near the top end of the room and work back towards the door I presume @200sols ?

I might do it over a couple evenings so I could work in the corner near the radiator then back, then section 2 behind that, then jump back over it, then section 3 near the soil pipe last? (over 3 days?)

Its an odd way to do it, just thought it makes sure all the alignment is bob on near the finishing point by the door.

Edit: just seen this so might just dry lay/cut it all then try to fit it in one day /evening

How to Plan Tile Layout: 14 Steps (with Pictures) - wikiHow

If you're thinking about installing a tile floor in your home, it's important to take the time to figure out the best way to arrange the individual tiles. In most rooms, square and rectangular tiles will fit together in a simple grid...

www.google.com

 

[Buffman]

Any thoughts to this layout


Smaller cuts down the left near radiator (which will usually be obscured by the door) and centre aligns with window/toilet.

My tape measure indicates itd be roughly a whole tile down the back. There will be a doorbar to the adjacent floor (which isn't cut flat with the door slam strips....)

 

[Buffman]

@Buffman could you provide a rundown of that pallet contents please?

I see a tiling kit, mixer, trowel, spacers, adhesive, sanding disc (for old grout?), sponge, leveling kit and grout what else please?

What's the spiky roller for? The floor?

The Spiked roller is for when using self leveller. As I understand its to help "release trapped air bubbles, preventing them from curing on the surface."

It is a grinding disc to attach to an angle grinder to cut porcelain tiles.

Attached a pic of the order. I ended up ordering from Pro tiler tools, but the order was late (told me it would arrive Friday then didn't, and asked if I'd like to pay £60 more for Saturday delivery). There was also nail through one of the bags of tile adhesive. I've found them a pain before and probably won't use them again.

 

[Buffman]

That layout for tiles looks good, looks like it narrows towards the bog

I take it you have checked that its not going to require any slivers down the left side (as you look at photo) as you get towards the bog? (That would be my only concern)

Good point, well made! Not checked that yet but looks relatively straight, plus already cutting a small amount off one so got a lot of play in it.

Think I'll get a couple boxes out and dry lay it all out then cut it.

 

[Buffman]

Was going to go a 6mm notched trowel (so 3mm adhesive bed) and back butter all tiles (just by sliding a small amount into each tile on the flat edge).

Theres a small section that's not quite level under the sink and behind the bog. I was going to use either 8mm trowel(so 4mm adhesive bed) or 10mm trowel (so 5mm adhesive bed) to take that up.

Sound about right? @200sols @Participant @bigfoot4616 @Sin_Chase[/USER [USER=2544]@Simon ... Thoughts? Know you were interested in my other thread (which I need to post some more "finished" pics of

 

[Buffman]

Even dry laying these is a bit of a pain but got a layout that I think looks good and minimises cuts... I realise I need the cross posts too and that I don't have enough centre posts...

Perfect Level Master - Reusable Crosses / Spacers - 3mm - Bag 100

Perfect Level Master - Reusable Crosses / Spacers - 3mm - Bag 100, One of the major advantages of the Perfect Level Master System is an innovative type of cross unlike traditional methods. The crosses used in this system do not fall in between the gaps.

pureadhesion.co.uk

 

[Buffman]

Wow wish I didn't mix 20kg of adhesive in one go.... Fortunately it said a couple of hours set and I managed to keep going to 10pm last night.

All the level master clips knocked out easily which was good.

Looks like once I lay the rest then grout it should look good.

 

[Buffman]

Finished. Any pro tips for grouting @200sols ?

 

[Buffman]

Have lots of sponges on hand!

A final polish with a dry microfiber cloth works well at the end.

Nice work, how are your knees holding up?

Is back buttering only needed for floor tiles or large wall tiles? Everyone seems to have different views on this topic.

That stud wall/frame at the back of the room. You haven't screwed the horizontal studs into the vertical studs, do you plan to?

Thanks, now grouted, black grout was a *******! Was worried it would mark into the white parts of the tiles

There are a couple tiles that grout lines have gone out but generally got it quite level. Not bad for a first time tiling.

Yes that stud wall is just built out to plasterboard the wall and make it flat. It's all pretty solid.

Need it plastered, painted and ill change the sink too.im going to keep to the boxing in as it's too much arseache to stud out the whole wall for it.

 

[Buffman]

I think it’s a good idea not to stud the whole wall out. Aside from the extra effort and expense, I think you’ll run into an issue with lack of elbow room when going for a dump…!

I don't think it would be bad, minor loss (around 25mm) but overall I'm leaving some boxing due to effort involved.


Ive now fitted my sink unit. Wondering wether to go option 1 and have a "slither"/smaller tile down right hand side (and no cut tiles visible) or to centre it all (means cut tiles will be visible adjacent the left side.


The right hand side of the sink will just be 2 whole tiles (and all will be 2 tiles height) so that's no probs.


Plumbed in

Unit

Option 1 for tiling

 

[Buffman]

Wow don't listen to anyone on the Internet that says use a grinder to mitre tile trim. Eventually got my mitre saw out and far better

 

[Buffman]

Looks spot on. Is that just a regular mitre saw with a different blade?

Yeah tbh the mitres are shockingly accurate (if they hold...) can't say the adhesive on these tiles is the best, had to play about with it a lot to get it all looking "right" /flush with trim etc. Not bad for first time wall tiling.

Its the standard wood+metal blade that comes with the evolution 3 saw. The whole saw was a good buy at about 40quid about 6 years ago, but it has jumped at me a few times so I don't use it much! I had to the hold the trim within and old floorboard off cut whilst cuttin it to stop it buckling, worked well.

Any tiling I've paid for they've never mitred the trim :'(