Replacement barge. Looking at E39 540...

Liampope

Liampope

Liampope

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Hello...

I've been pondering where I go next from the wondrous joy that is my Vauxhall Omega for a while. I initially figured I'd have to go for an S-class or 7-series as I essentially want it to be a good bit better than the trusty Vaux, and the main thing I want now is a bit more power to play with. Hence I'm thinking V8 or turbos. The latter had me briefly considering all sorts of stuff like S80 T6, Mitsu Gallant TT, Subaru Legacy TT, etc, but they all seem to suffer from one or more major issues that ultimately rule them out, like going back to FWD, having a horrible interior, not enough toys/comfort, too rare for a good one, etc (oh yeah the Vauxhall has set the bar pretty high, LOL :)). So I've come full circle back to a Merc or Beemer, and although I'm not too put off by the potential issues of an old S or 7 (I do my own major work and have briefly looked into some major issues such as the dreaded S Airmatic, and they are not showstoppers) I am nevertheless looking more favourably at an E or 5, and since the E of the vintage I'd be considering is butt-ugly, I'm looking specifically at an E39 540.

So tell me about 540s. Having a brief look, about 5K seems to pick up a nice looking one (nice looking from my current position of naivety anyway). What I'm specifically wondering is...

1. Any major engine or mechanical issues? I'm sure I've read about liner issues(??). Are there years to avoid or things to look for in history? For example, is, counter-intuitively, a low mileage car likely to be just about to suffer from some known issue (hence the sale), but a higher miler will have had this rectified?

2. Out of interest does it make a good V8 noise, or is it very quiet/refined as standard with loud reserved for the M5?

3. Interior: I'm a bit anal about wanting as many options as possible. This was easy buying the Vaux as you just got an Elite and had everything possible, but seems like I need to be more careful/patient with a 540? Some adverts mention 'comfort seats'. Is that a specific option to look for - like better featured seats than standard? I see some have sports seats - are they better? Some have a sort of two-tone interior going on which looked good in some photos, but I wonder if I'll like it in the flesh.

4. ICE. There seems to be various alternatives for what goes in the radio slot. Should I choose carefully, or is it the case that even if I choose what looks like the 'best one' - with a colour widescreen, it will still be outdated and I might want to not worry about the standard equipment and instead consider aftermarket? I'm reminded specifically of Fox's thread on choosing a decent ICE/navigation system for his 5.

5. Are my current fears correct - no E39 has heated rear seats:(, so my rear passengers will have to poverty it up and wonder why I got rid of the Vauxhall? :)

That's all for now. This wont be until I'm finished out here in Norway, which may be extended, so I dont want to take up a lot of people's time looking at specific cars in the ads, etc. But I would like to start the familiarisation process and start to learn to know what to look for. Thanks for any advice.

Or shall I just get a 740 instead?? :)

Cheers
 
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1. I don't think there's anything out of the ordinary. Liner issues are only on the very early versions - at 5k you are looking at the latest revision which had Alusil liners (not the Nikasil which can have issues).

2. It's a nice noise, but not a roaring beast. It has that nice refined executive V8-ness to it.

3. Almost every E39 will come with a different set of options - unlike a Vauxhall, most things are specified at the owner's request. Sports seats are the better type with nice pronounced bolsters. The interior on the E39 is really quite fantastic and most sensible colour combos look good in person.

4. E39 ICE isn't the best. Widescreen navigation is nice if you like the OEM feel, but it isn't exactly rammed with features. With a 540i you can afford to search out the OEM navigation as it was more common on these than on a 528i/530i etc. Audio quality is a bit poor unless you get the best system available (I think it was DSP? Fox please corect)

5. You can get heated rear seats; it was just a rarely chosen option :)

The E38 740i is a great car. If you like barges I'd be tempted by one over a 5. There are a few very nice 7's around, and just as an example: http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201205446654572/
 
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Ah, the E39.

A 540i at any price will be far from issue free. Major borkage will thankfully be rare but you will find constant little niggles here and there that quickly add up. Moeks purchased one a few years ago at similar money and eventually bailed out having emptied thousands of pounds into it and still not really getting it 100% right.

That said, if you are going into this with your eyes open and you realise that the only thing cheap about it is the purchase price, you will be rewarded with IMHO one of the finest cars ever built. The fact you consider yourself competent to do stuff yourself will help - if you are totally reliant on garages to fix things then they become so expensive to run it's a wonder anyone can justify it.

The major weakness on these cars is thankfully not hugely expensive - the cooling system. It is made from cheese but you can replace pretty much the entire thing for about 500 quid anyway. The most major issue facing a 540i buyer is the automatic gearbox, perhaps the only part of the car still capable of generating a 4 figure repair bill. You *must* be ok with the fact that one day you might need to splash out big time in order to sort your gearbox. Other bits and bobs include leaky rocker cover gaskets, dodgy alternators (The later 540i's have quite expensive and less reliable watercooled alternators) and suspension wear that's at a quicker rate than you'll find in an Six Cylinder example by virtue of the front weight bias. Almost any E39 for sale now is desperately overdue a suspension refresh and if it's a keeper you'd be mad not to get it done PDQ. New dampers, upper and lower control arms etc. Parts wise £600-£700 then fitting, but once done it'll drive properly for many thousands of miles.

Watch for rust in random places like the tailgate and inside the fuel filler cap. Also watch for tyre costs, I calculated last night that quality rear tyres on an E39 on 18's cost 3-4p a mile! Made me cry a bit when I realised a 240 mile trip costs about 7 quid in tyre wear alone! Sadly decent tyres in the correct size are over £200 each. If you are on non-staggered 17's though the same quality tyres are a bargain-tastic £110ish each.

The standard specification of an E39 is very good so I tend to think that people who go spec crazy are rather missing the point that condition is about 10 million times more important. The extra options are mostly in the 'nice to have' area or the 'not of much value these days'. It's best to take a view that if it has extra options, great, if not, no big deal, because everything you would expect from a car like this is standard on a 540i. As standard you will get electric memory seats, dual zone climate control, DSC, cruise control, high onboard computer, etc etc.

Options wise things to look out for on a 540i over the standard spec.. well you mention Comfort Seats. These are exceptionally rare and IMHO you'll be better off with the standard fit Sport Seats anyway. There is no uber-comfort-sports-seat as per E38. Other common options are things like electric steering column adjust (You will use this one and then never again), double glazing (This actually is lovely), sunroof, heated seats, rear sunblind etc. The other big option is the Communications Pack which I will cover separately in a bit. So, as you can see, a standard 540i has everything you'd expect but you'll find most 540i's are fitted with options anyway. Another option is Xenon lights but as E39's all have projector headlights a Xenon retrofit leaves you with a system that's as good anyway (Self levelling is useless) so this isn't a major concern.

Audio... this is a major concern. Many 540i's will be fitted with the Communications Pack. On a facelift car this gives telephone preparation, a widescreen monitor and satellite navigation. The navigation system Is crap - low resolution, poor graphics, looks like a computer from the late 1990's but the major advantage of it is that if you purchase an Intravee you can get simply outstanding iPod control through it - with full track names etc. This is VERY good and is probably one of the best looking options you can get. Sadly the rest of the system is hopelessly dated. If you get a car with it, stick with it, if you don't, its not the end of the world. I intend to reveal the results of my E39 navigation research very shortly for alternatives, so keep posted.

And no, E39's never had heated rear seats.

Depending on what sort of drive you are after you might consider a 7 Series. It's more waft and less sport than the E39, but many aspects are very similar and it's more of a cruiser-barge. And you can get your rear heated seats, too. However you choose to run an E39 or an e38 it will at many times resemble a big hole in which to hurl vast quantities of cash, but IMHO its SO worth it. Just don't buy a £5k one because you've only got £5k. Buy a £5k one because you want one and they happen to cost £5k, if that makes sense.

Oh, and they do 15mpg around town and 28ish on the Motorway :p
 
Hi guys, thanks for taking the time to make those informative replies! :)

Hmmmmm quite positive I'd say - generally good news. Mechanically sound notwithstanding a possible gearbox swap. Is there a specific common issue with the gearbox that you might detect signs of on a test drive? Is it a mechanical explosion or a computer-says-no error? Oh well that's a bridge that can be crossed if neccessary. Would you say this issue warrants favouring the few fairly low mileage examples available? I would normally look much more at the overall condition than mileage, but if there's a timebomb issue there with the box maybe mileage is more important?

Thanks for the heads up on tyres - I might have overlooked that. So staggered wheels with fat rear tyres was an option, or fitted to the Sport model or something like that?

Regarding the interior, if my google skills are OK, the comfort seats are like normal seats but have some system of bladders and pumps which moves stuff around to give you a little massage? I can probably live without that. The sport seats look nice, and as long as I get my heated memory cow I'll be happy enough :). I think it's definately true about no heated rears as I've seen a couple of guides for retrofitting it using E38 parts which I guess nobody would do if E39 parts exist. That retrofit looked pretty tidy though.

Blimey I remember that nav system thread being ages ago and you still havent decided!? :p. I'll await your results with interest though. So it's sort of as I thought - if you have the communications pack you have a passable OEM option (well at least for audio - might still want to keep the TomTom). Without the coms pack you have one more reason to want to fit something decent aftermarket. Does having the coms pack mean you definately have an old brick phone with spiral cable on the arm rest? If that's the case I think I'd rather not have the coms pack, have a plain arm rest, and definately fit aftermarket ICE and nav, to be honest :).

Another simple question I thought of - does a 540 have an LSD as standard fit or option? And is any sort of traction/stability control turn-off-able? That's an important button on the Omega :).

Aaargh stop it with the 740 - I thought I was being ever so slightly more sensible looking at a 5. It's this forum that's made me try to stop such dirty thoughts. If it wasn't for this place I'd already have picked up a W220 S600 for a grand or two and be loving it :) Well, that or have it sorned with no suspension and several computers all saying no. Nah even I'm not that silly. Damn that 740 linked above certainly is nice though! And I do have this feeling, I dont know if it is accurate though, that an E38 is a much safer bet than a W220. Hmmmmmmm... Thinking about it, I find myself lamenting the Omega's soft wallowy rear a bit more than wishing it was even more barge-like. I've had wafty when I had a Series III XJ6, and I hired an E65 in Germany, and I certainly love all that, but I think a bit more sporty would be good. My thinking is that a nice E39 might offer both slightly more comfort/refinement for cruising than the Omega and more poise and control when called upon, so ticking both boxes a little bit. What do you reckon?

Anyway thanks for the advice so far. Cheers.

I guess those MPG figures are about right! They are lower than I've seen quoted, I think, but yours are probably more realistic. What I've seen quoted isn't much lower than my 3 litre Omega and so seemed possibly rather optimistic for a 4.5 litre V8! It's a good job I like pumping petrol.
 
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I know the E38/9 are a step above what you have, but I'd honestly consider sticking with the meeega.

OEM VX parts costs are kept low at trade price with the ABS card, the BMWs will throw up much larger bills.

Plus it's likely you'll have to spend a fair whack getting what you buy up to scratch at this age, you have a known quantity.

Quite possible that you'll miss the wafty ride + ICE from the NCDC 2015 :p
 
They are absolutely excellent cars when they are all 'right' ...however as Fox said, don't go buying a 5k 540i thinking that's it, it will almost certainly need over 1k spending on it, possibly more ...depending on weather yours has any less obvious 'features' like mine did. I spent over 2k on mine and just admitted defeat and bailed in the end, sold the car and in total basically lost the better part of 4k, when accounting for what I spent and what I lost on the value of the car.

A large chunk of all the money I have ever collectively 'burned' on cars was in that one car which I didn't even keep for a year.

There are a few specific things you should look for but really the best way for me to tell you about those is to dig out one of my old threads on it, rather than try and recall everything again.

You know something though, I would buy a 540i again if I found one as good as Fox's 530i ...I would never do it the way I did before again though. Patience is key, take your time to find a good one, and knit pick ...be critical, don't just think 'arhh it'll be fine' ...make sure you get a really, really good one. Although of course you have to realise that a perfect one is all but impossible now. Me being me though made the mistake of 'having' to have it within a week or so of deciding I was going to buy one. It wasn't the first time impatience has cost me, but it was the most expensive bit of impatience I have ever experienced.

What I would also say here is that if you have 5k to spend on one, budget at least 6k ...preferably have 7 ready to go though. Because it will cost you money straight off the bat to get it 'right' and it 'might' throw a curve ball at you unexpectedly with something aswell, so make sure you can deal with it.

You will notice that it is many orders of magnitude easier to find a decent 530i than a 540i ...they are rare cars and good ones do command a premium and don't seem to stay on the market for long.
 
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Thanks for your insight Moeks. It would be interesting to know what specific issues you had, and if someone being more patient could have avoided any of them by noticing/looking for something during a test drive/inspection :). The general message I am getting is that despite the potential to throw up some biggish bills/work, it is very much worth it!

Shimmy dont get me wrong I totally love the meggy. It has been absolutely excellent to own and drive, but I've had it over 6 years now and fancy something else. First thoughts were just another Omega, but sadly I really dont like the look of either the exterior or interior changes for the facelift, and as above I fancy more powaaaaah. I've ruled out a lot of potentially fun stuff with turbos as I know the interior spec and driving dynamics wont match up to the old meggy. Even with a 540 I think I'll miss a few things - particularly the Bose audio system. Over all that time it's been really reliable too, save for 'the incident' (which involved one camshaft sprocket coming loose, moving over to say hi to its neighbour, grinding themselves a bit before locking up in mesh and causing the crankshaft sprocket to peel of a nice row of about 8 teeth from the belt and one or two valves to be bent :(). But it's time for 8 cylinders :).
 
I'm not really sure there is a magic-mileage for Autobox trouble, for example the 530i Touring is on 61k and is having box issues at the moment and thats about as low mileage as you are ever likely to find an E39 these days.

Staggered wheels are standard on Sport models. They come as standard with 235/45/17 front and 255/40/17 rears. The fronts in this size are £110ish each for Assymetric 2's, the rears are about £150-£160ish each. There were several optional staggered 18 inch wheels as well, the most common being the stunning Style 37's on Sport models. These are 235/40/18 front at £160ish each and 265/35/18 each at £210ish each. Non-staggered cars on 17's run the same £110 a corner size all round.

Electric memory Sport Seats are standard fit on all V8's from MY98 I think, but your budget is facelift territory so there is nothing to worry about - they all have them.

There is no LSD, they are fitted with Dynamic Stability Control. It is fully disengagable at the touch of a button on the dash.

You are correct in that all Comms Pack fitted cars have the phone in the armrest unless you are lucky enough to find an MY03 car because these had Bluetooth available, which replaces the phone with a snap-in adaptor and a pairing button.

I'm not sure an E38 is less 'sensible' than an E39. Personally I think the E39 is a better car, certainly from a handling perspective (It was the first to introduce things like all-aluminium front suspension etc) but there isn't anything major that goes wrong on an E38 that doesnt equally apply to the E39 - they share the same engines, gearboxes, electrical systems etc. My preference for the E39 is purely a matter of taste - it's a blend of Sportiness and Waftiness whereas the E46 is mostly 'Sportiness' (Guys, seriously, not in this thread, I cannot be bothered to go off tangent in a pathetic debate about this term, you all know what I mean) and the E38 is very definately 'waftiness'.

A W220 S Class is IMHO a superior car to the E38 - but then it spent most of its life head to head with the E65 so you'd expect that. It's a generation ahead, it just came out 2 years before the E38 was discontinued. The S220 has, as you've discovered, some simply eyewatering bill potential.
 
There seems to be a lot of e39 love at the moment on the forum, had mine exactly a year now and loved every second driving it, it's not a car I'd have ever considered 5+ years ago (thought they were a bit old man), but the drive is amazing. It feels such a solid car and is so quiet at motorway speeds and fairly nimble in the back roads too. It will seats 5 in comfort, reasonable boot space high level of equipment. I think the risk reward factor is pretty good for what is an extremely pleasant car to live with.
 
I actually didn't have any gearbox issues as such with mine, (it did have a leak from the output shaft though, the seal had obviously failed where the shaft exited the box) which had done over 100k miles. The main issues I had was periodic hunting from the engine, and every so often serious hunting, it even stalled once (I'd never seen an auto stall before nor have I since) despite my MAF being fine, the induction system all being fine (I took it apart lots of times in the end) the throttle body being sparkling clean and me replacing the pcv vale (crank case ventilation) ...it could have been a cam sensor ...that or a crank sensor was just about my last guess, I also replaced all the spark plugs and the rocker cover gasket since mine were leaking oil into the plug wells. However the issue that really made me get rid was the fact that I had this rattle from deep in the engine when it was warmed up, it did not run completely smoothly like it should have done, at very low speeds or idle I could hear it from inside the car and it was not only annoying and unpleasant but also likely a sign of a more serious issue, probably the secondary cam chain tensioner (I changed the primary one) which is stupidly difficult to replace and requires the front of the car to be disassembled and the entire front of the engine ...which was beyond my abilities with cars and my tool set ...and would have cost me an arm and a leg to get it done by someone else. By contrast the primary chain tensioner is easy, it just bolts through the engine housing and seals with a silicon gasket.

I also had a leak from my steering box, I was keeping mine topped up with fluid but to actually replace it BMW quoted me 2.2k ...yes that's 2,200 pounds.

My gearbox was fine, shifting quickly and smoothly (better than either of the Jag ones I had) but I was approaching the point where they tend to start throwing up issues and mine did have a very, very slow leak. I read a lot of US forums about them, since the V8s are much more common there and the autoboxes seem to start presenting issues circa 110-130k miles although of course this can vary a bit, some never act up. The oil in the gearbox and torque converter isn't replaced as part of a service at any point during the life of the car due to BMW's 'sealed for life' policy ...however most would recommend that it is done, every 50k miles or so. It's not a massively hard job to do but it's messy, takes quite a long time and requires lots of faffing about and hundreds of pounds of a particular AT fluid.

There was a bit of a list of more minor issues with mine too but they aren't really worth going into, just stuff like dead pixels on infotainment display, some rust etc. The steering on the 540i is **** to put it bluntly too, the ST220 I had steered like a ballerina by comparison.
 
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If you have £5k to spend from savings etc and are happy with the 540s potential running costs then I'd say borrow the extra cash and get an m5, I know someone who went from a written off 540i down to a 530i and said there's not much in it in terms of performance, the steering and gearbox detract from a decent 530i manual (2.5-3.5k should get you a decent one). Being 32 your insurance quote for an m5 should be under a grand I suspect.
 
I really wouldn't, first of all he wants an auto barge which the M5 isn't and secondly the M5 has the potential to make the 540 look cheap. If you wanted more than a 540 auto then its Alpina B10 not M5.

Agree about the 530i though as that's why I chose it. Although the good ones are no cheaper than 540s and I wouldn't change the budget. 5k gets a Champagne II edition. 2.5k buys a shiney nail.
 
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LOL you seem to have been a little unlucky :). If that's the worst one can throw at me I think I can handle it. I've been deeper inside my Omega engine on a couple of occasions. You kind of feel a bonding process with a car when you get intimate with it like that :). Will definately go into any purchase with my eyes open as said above thanks to the advice on here.

An M5 I really dont think so. It's more than I would want to spend to get and keep a good one, and as Fox has correctly judged it isn't what I'm looking for. I'm building a toy car for fun which might even one day be finished and on the road, so what I require from the tin top is quality and relaxed cruising but with the ability to exite with the power, sound and handling if I feel that way inclined. The Omega has really been pretty perfect for my needs, but I want to step it up a good amount next time. That's the only reason I really dont think I'll consider a 6-cylinder model as good as one is - I don't think it'll exite me much more than my old worthless Vauxhall :). I really want that step up in power and soundtrack.

Thanks again for your advice and opinions.

One more question - are you aware of a decent owners forum? In Omega-land there is an excellent one full of guys who are walking parts catalogues/technical manuals, and that community really helps with ownership. Anything that good exist for E39s? Where did you knowledgable guys learn your stuff? For now, does anybody know if there is a good online resource of brocures/specs/owners manuals, that sort of info. I quite like to geekily study that sort of info and know exactly what every possible button is, go to bed with Haynes manuals, that sort of thing. :)

Cheers
 
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