Replacement for Classic Shell?

Scania

Scania

Scania

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http://www.classicshell.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8147

After learning Classic Shell is soon to stop being developed (and each Windows update seems to break it) can anybody recommend a replacement that’s near enough the same but is still supported?

Not so much for me, I haven’t reinstalled it since my last system reinstall but more for my 80yr old Dad who can’t get his head around the Start menu in Windows 10 and loves Classic Shell.

Thanks. :)
 
Not being funny, but if you can't get to grips with the simplicity of Windows 10 Start Menu, especially the new variant in Windows 10 1809, then for Christmas, give your dad some time, as opposed to Software :)
 
Django x2 said:
Not being funny, but if you can't get to grips with the simplicity of Windows 10 Start Menu, especially the new variant in Windows 10 1809, then for Christmas, give your dad some time, as opposed to Software :)
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I’ve tried - and tried - but,he likes the look and familiarity of Classic Shell alas.

As I say, he’s 80 hasn’t got the time (he’s got terminal cancer alas) nor the inclination to master 10’s interface.

Basically it needs to look like his old XP setup did including the old style Control Panel etc.
 
Django x2 said:
Not being funny, but if you can't get to grips with the simplicity of Windows 10 Start Menu, especially the new variant in Windows 10 1809, then for Christmas, give your dad some time, as opposed to Software :)
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One of the big problems for older IT users is that often they need to reproduce the same steps over and over (often having written them down and follow them) when Windows 10 updates and changes things substantially that often causes them significant issues as the path to do some tasks is different to what they know to do. (One of the reasons I have a very low opinion of the developers working on 10 as they seem limited ability to see or even any inclination to try and understand usage outside of a very narrow scope of their own).
 
Rroff said:
One of the big problems for older IT users is that often they need to reproduce the same steps over and over (often having written them down and follow them) when Windows 10 updates and changes things substantially that often causes them significant issues as the path to do some tasks is different to what they know to do. (One of the reasons I have a very low opinion of the developers working on 10 as they seem limited ability to see or even any inclination to try and understand usage outside of a very narrow scope of their own).
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Cheers Rroff, this is pretty much the issue, 10 updates which breaks Classic Shell and he’s left effectively being unable to use the PC until he next sees me to sort it out because he just doesn’t get along with 10’s interface unfortunately.
 
This is the other problem with Windows 10 - these shell replacements need a lot more developer hands on to make sure they don't break an update and/or aren't broken by an update and if you want to apply newer updates then you are reliant on the application developer releasing new versions when required. Windows as a service model is what it is but it is another reason why not giving people proper control over the OS is bad.
 
Rroff said:
This is the other problem with Windows 10 - these shell replacements need a lot more developer hands on to make sure they don't break an update and/or aren't broken by an update and if you want to apply newer updates then you are reliant on the application developer releasing new versions when required. Windows as a service model is what it is but it is another reason why not giving people proper control over the OS is bad.
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Not sure I agree it's a problem with Windows 10 - more that it's how these developers have chosen to implement their solution; not sure if Microsoft can be blamed for breaking a third party's software.

I would expect there's a fine line being skirted, with these applications that modify the shell - buried in MS's Ts and Cs there's bound to be something where they say you can't do this - maybe they break it on purpose.

There's a lot of negatives (imo) for SaaS and WaaS, the next gen consoles (OT) will probably be GaaS too - but it's the way the markets are heading.
 
Scort said:
Not sure I agree it's a problem with Windows 10 - more that it's how these developers have chosen to implement their solution; not sure if Microsoft can be blamed for breaking a third party's software.

I would expect there's a fine line being skirted, with these applications that modify the shell - buried in MS's Ts and Cs there's bound to be something where they say you can't do this - maybe they break it on purpose.

There's a lot of negatives (imo) for SaaS and WaaS, the next gen consoles (OT) will probably be GaaS too - but it's the way the markets are heading.
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I mean it is a problem for people who rely on these 3rd party software to make the OS more usable as they often rely on undocumented features, exploiting bugs or unintended functionality, etc. to work which is fine with older OSes that are a more static target but Windows 10 is not a static target.

Which is why you can't really rely on these products and why it sucks that MS's implementation poorly takes into account the wider real world use of their OS versus very narrow scope ideal user models they are pushing.
 
Start10 was the first thing i installed on Windows 10. Set it up then and haven't had to do a single thing to it since. It updates occasionally and that's it. Haven't had a single problem with it. Set it and forget it.
 
The windows 10 start menu, frankly, is appalling. The search frequently breaks, it often doesn't respond how you would expect (sometimes taking 2 or 3 attempts at typing a command before it actually appears), and it's a laggy mess. Any attempt at customising the apps drawer results in hair pulling frustration as it simply then refuses to find items in there or orphaned shortcuts are left behind which have long since been deleted.

Once you revert to the older x86/64 style menus as offered in start10 or open shell it's quickly apparent just how poor and broken it really is.

It's a glowing icon of just how rubbish Windows 10 is generally. As of now I'm rebuilding my work laptop after just 4 months because multiple things are broken.

It has a lot of potential but fails to realise it due to how buggy it is. I know that Windows has always been like this (I've 20 years in IT) it seems worse now than ever before. People bang on about vista but Windows 10 seems worse to me than vista ever was, and that is seriously worrying; at least vista got better with age, Win10 shows no signs at all of doing so.
 
FishLicker said:
The windows 10 start menu, frankly, is appalling. The search frequently breaks, it often doesn't respond how you would expect (sometimes taking 2 or 3 attempts at typing a command before it actually appears), and it's a laggy mess. Any attempt at customising the apps drawer results in hair pulling frustration as it simply then refuses to find items in there or orphaned shortcuts are left behind which have long since been deleted.

Once you revert to the older x86/64 style menus as offered in start10 or open shell it's quickly apparent just how poor and broken it really is.

It's a glowing icon of just how rubbish Windows 10 is generally. As of now I'm rebuilding my work laptop after just 4 months because multiple things are broken.

It has a lot of potential but fails to realise it due to how buggy it is. I know that Windows has always been like this (I've 20 years in IT) it seems worse now than ever before. People bang on about vista but Windows 10 seems worse to me than vista ever was, and that is seriously worrying; at least vista got better with age, Win10 shows no signs at all of doing so.
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Absolutely - personally I think in concept it is a good idea but the implementation is woeful - falling behind even Windows 3 in terms of being able to customise it and it is super frustrating how when I strip it out and setup tiles and shortcuts, etc. so as to make it useful for me quite often after a feature update it becomes partially or fully reset or things get moved around randomly, etc.

I'm aghast at the lack of things like proper group management, lack of ability to save profiles so as to have slightly different setups, lack of ability to fully customise individual tiles, etc. in a product put out by a company the size and legacy of MS.
 
Neither Gnome or Osx offer the same level as Win7 out of the box but they get away with it unscathed. Whilst i agree the search on Win10 is pathetic, and the OOBE is pretty dire for the semi technical adapt user, but once the guff is removed the start menu is as good as win7 and much more accessible imo, you just need to know how to.

now including the xbox stuff in server 2012 is a proper wtf!
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Rroff said:
lack of ability to fully customise individual tiles, etc. in a product put out by a company the size and legacy of MS.
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TBF it was never advertised as customisable, the live tiles are down to how the application developers want to be portrayed. Part of Win10 problems is not necessary win10 but the level of expectation/openness win7 created.

Windows10 is a product of the time, thanks to malware etc etc there has to be some trade offs along the way. On the plus side, in our work environment its pretty much made the helpdesk redundant.​
 
LizardKing said:
TBF it was never advertised as customisable, the live tiles are down to how the application developers want to be portrayed.
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I don't mean over-riding what the application developer portrays on live tiles as such but more customisation over the icons and tiles in general in terms of layout, background colours/transparency and for shortcuts, etc. what icon is used and so on.
 
Rroff said:
I don't mean over-riding what the application developer portrays on live tiles as such but more customisation over the icons and tiles in general in terms of layout, background colours/transparency and for shortcuts, etc. what icon is used and so on.
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Most of that is possible, though again it is controlled by the app developer for the most part, chrome (as an example) is quite annoying as they keep resetting it back to there default background on every update.

most of them are glorified shortcuts found
C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs

The modern apps are slightly different as they are live tiles even if there static images. They can also be customised. You've just got to export the start menu to xml to figure out where they are
 
LizardKing said:
Most of that is possible, though again it is controlled by the app developer for the most part, chrome (as an example) is quite annoying as they keep resetting it back to there default black background on every update.

most of them are glorified shortcuts found
C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs

The modern apps are slightly different as they are live tiles even if there static images. They can also be customised. You've just got to export the start menu to xml to figure out where they are
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I had mixed results trying to do it via behind the scenes editing - there is a way you can mess about with the XML or whatever layout files as well but also tends to break things. In other/older OSes most of what I'm talking about is properly implemented functionality through the UI customisation options.
 
Rroff said:
I had mixed results trying to do it via behind the scenes editing - there is a way you can mess about with the XML or whatever layout files as well but also tends to break things. In other/older OSes most of what I'm talking about is properly implemented functionality through the UI customisation options.
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The default background on shortcuts really should be transparent with standardised logo sizes, I think if they did that then it would be far cleaner! ironically its the openness to app developers that makes it look a mess imo

Modern apps/ live tiles aside it should (ha!) be little different to how win7 handled things. thankfully those are on the downtrend

Though like the search it does have a habit of giving strange results!

Irc, win7 didn't really offer that much customisation? I've actually forgotten, though creating a default profile was far less time consuming (perhaps through less customisation :p).
 
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