Replacement NS1000s arrived...
- Thread starter Auraomega
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I'd email each again, Play and Goldring, and tell each, that the other had told you to contact them. So tell Play, Goldring had told you to get in contact with the retailer, and see what they say. Send a similar email to Goldring, and see what they have to say.
I hope Play wont give you the run around over this. I have heard others with poor experiences of Play's CS.
If their CS is crap, then considering the amount of NS1000's problems recently, it's probably a good idea not to recommend anyone get them from Play. I think if I did decide to get a pair, I'd rather pay extra £10 and get them from SuperFi.
I've used them 7 times in total, 5/7 of those orders I've had the wrong item, wrongly described item or a faulty item and when I've contacted them I've had the run around on every occasion, the worst time they plain disregarding the DSR and refused to accept a return on an item I purchased that was covered under the DSR. Bottom line their customer service is awful and the only reason I used them this time around has been because the NS1000s didn't seem to suffer any issues when I Googled around and because they were (at the time) significantly cheaper than anywhere else trustworthy.
All in all I have never and will never recommend using them for this exact reason.
I sent back my NS1000s back due to the headband breaking in nov,they only had two weeks warranty with the jersey site left. Spoke to cs at Goldring(thought it may be quicker to rma direct) who told me they had an arrangement with the jersey site regarding returns & told me to call them. Phoned & spoke to a guy who arranged an RMA in minutes.Happy days!!! Using my replacement NS1000s right now
Soldato
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Can someone please explain why you can get these on play.com for £53 when the RRP is £159?
Is there any fakes doing the rounds?
Is there any fakes doing the rounds?
Soldato
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@ the OP. Did you return the headphones to Goldring or the retailer?
Soldato
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Which one did you return them to then? 
Goldring or retailer?
Goldring or retailer?
Soldato
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Just purchased some from my local SuperFI. Only £7 extra over the play.com ones. I think it's a very wise move because if they fail, i can always take them back to the shop. They seem great so far coupled with the E5. Very faint hissing with ANR switched on, but no build quality issues at all, I'm very pleased with them.
One thing though. It says 330ohm impedance in the manual with ANR. Can anyone else look in their manual and see what theirs say? It's on the first page. Could be a typo
One thing though. It says 330ohm impedance in the manual with ANR. Can anyone else look in their manual and see what theirs say? It's on the first page. Could be a typo
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I have one of the original sets of NS1000s that came with a 1.8m cable. Don't think I have the manual. On the box it says the following specs:
Pretty sure that 30 mW is a typo as they're a dog to drive with ANR off!
Meanwhile these are the specs on Goldring's website:
So we have an impedance contradiction!
I believe the input power requirements on the website rather than the box - as they are a pig to drive in passive mode - 50% greater than the 200 mW on my Senn HD600 and 3 times that of my Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 250 ohms makes a lot of sense. It also stacks with my observation that although they don't sound bad with ANR on without an amp they do improve significantly with one (voltage swing anyone?)
We know the cable length's changed since the originals (unless the 1m cable is play.com enonomising). Anything else different?
Edit: By the way - I don't know why everyone quotes impedance as a measure of how demanding headphones are to drive and whether they need an amp. Max input power is a vastly more direct measure of it. Just bear in mind that amps put out varying power at different impedances.
Compare the NS1000 specs with the FiiO E5's specs:
I need to get my NS1000s tested with some higher end amps! Not intending to drive them to max volume (they're loud anyway) but just wondering what kind of dynamic welly they're really capable of!?
Pretty sure that 30 mW is a typo as they're a dog to drive with ANR off!
Meanwhile these are the specs on Goldring's website:
So we have an impedance contradiction!
I believe the input power requirements on the website rather than the box - as they are a pig to drive in passive mode - 50% greater than the 200 mW on my Senn HD600 and 3 times that of my Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 250 ohms makes a lot of sense. It also stacks with my observation that although they don't sound bad with ANR on without an amp they do improve significantly with one (voltage swing anyone?)
We know the cable length's changed since the originals (unless the 1m cable is play.com enonomising). Anything else different?
Edit: By the way - I don't know why everyone quotes impedance as a measure of how demanding headphones are to drive and whether they need an amp. Max input power is a vastly more direct measure of it. Just bear in mind that amps put out varying power at different impedances.
Compare the NS1000 specs with the FiiO E5's specs:
I need to get my NS1000s tested with some higher end amps! Not intending to drive them to max volume (they're loud anyway) but just wondering what kind of dynamic welly they're really capable of!?
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Soldato
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Looking at my box, it says the same weight as yours with the cable (233g) even though you have 0.8m more of it.
Mmm, quite a few typo's then it seems
Mmm, quite a few typo's then it seems
Soldato
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what makes you think this? max input power tells you nothing other than how much abuse the drivers will take before thermal overload. It's not even consistent across the frequency range due to the way transducers work - at low frequencies the drivers will reach their mechanical limits far earlier than their thermal limits.
if you want a feel for how hard something is to drive, then look at the spl figures AND the impedance figures. look at the 7DBa drop with ANR off - that is a good indication of how hard they will be to drive. It doesnt tell the whole story, but its better than basing yours thought on a useless figure like the max input. Remember: it takes a doubling of power for every 1 decibel dropped, so you need 7x the input to drive the ns1000's with ANR off to the same level as with ANR on.
as for the amps, cheap amps fall in to two main categories: voltage limited, and current limited. any voltage limited amp will have a hard time driving high impedance headphones like the hd600/650/ns1000 (anr ON) as it is voltage swing that's required to generate power at those impedances. Conversely, low impedance phones will cause current-limited amps a good deal of trouble regardless of the voltage they can generate. This is why high impedance headphones are considered hard to drive, because decent voltage-delivery amps are not as common as amps that can provide a decent amount of current in to relatively lower currents - such as those found on your average sound card.
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I thought that maximum input power was the power at which the headphones maximum volume was reached - not the maximum thermal capacity of the driver. Surely the answer lies somewhere between impedance, maximum input power and sensitivity / spl? (Edit: see here http://gilmore2.chem.northwestern.edu/tech/dbohn1_tech.htm and the linked table here: http://gilmore2.chem.northwestern.edu/tech/dbohn1_table.htm)
I wouldn't advocate listening at the maximum level anyway due to the likelihood of hearing damage.
100 ohms is a funny 'middly' impedance. It's a level where many cheap amps will be either current or voltage limited or both.
Futher edit: I have never found volume to be a problem for the passive NS1000s. It's just that sound quality takes a real dive with no amp or an unsuitable amp.
I wouldn't advocate listening at the maximum level anyway due to the likelihood of hearing damage.
100 ohms is a funny 'middly' impedance. It's a level where many cheap amps will be either current or voltage limited or both.
Futher edit: I have never found volume to be a problem for the passive NS1000s. It's just that sound quality takes a real dive with no amp or an unsuitable amp.
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Soldato
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No it's measured in much the same way as as it is on conventional speakers and subwoofers. some subwoofers have absolutely mentally rated power handling when in reality they only need a fraction of it before they reach their mechanical limits. in those cases the enclosures the drivers sit in play a big part in it. Sealed subwoofer, for example, will take a lit more power at low frequencies than the same driver would in a ported box (below the tuning point of the box that is) because the pressure in that sealed box acts as a natural spring. the ported box doesnt have this and so the driver is a lot more 'free' and power handling decreases as a result.
headphones will be much them same, take a pair of free-air (open) headphones and run a 15hz tone through them. you'll heard the drivers cracking up and hitting the end stops (sounds like crack or a loud pop) long before they reach their quoted power handling. this can be proven by running a 50hz tone through the headphones at the same volume level as you wont hit the mechanical limits and chances are you'll be able to turn the wick up quite a bit before you hear any obvious problems. The hd650's are good for this - they arent the most efficient headphones below 30hz and the drivers a re too small to handle any real amount of power. if you arent careful, they run out of puff well before they really should do. i run a filter on everything below 20hz because of this, just as a precaution
These points are all generalisations, of course, but they explain enough hopefully.
No, definitely not, if anything its as ambiguous as RMS ratings are in general. it's nothing something you should use to base any assumptions on, promise lol.
Well, this is it really. some amps just arent suitable for either application, at least not seriously.
I havent either reaalllly, at least not a proper headphone amp. I found my old D2 absolutely comical with my 650's, but the old thing im using now is ok. What it isnt up to scratch on is everything else - background noise, seperation, control, which is something entirely different to power handling..it does the job but there's room from some serious improvement.
headphones will be much them same, take a pair of free-air (open) headphones and run a 15hz tone through them. you'll heard the drivers cracking up and hitting the end stops (sounds like crack or a loud pop) long before they reach their quoted power handling. this can be proven by running a 50hz tone through the headphones at the same volume level as you wont hit the mechanical limits and chances are you'll be able to turn the wick up quite a bit before you hear any obvious problems. The hd650's are good for this - they arent the most efficient headphones below 30hz and the drivers a re too small to handle any real amount of power. if you arent careful, they run out of puff well before they really should do. i run a filter on everything below 20hz because of this, just as a precaution
These points are all generalisations, of course, but they explain enough hopefully.No, definitely not, if anything its as ambiguous as RMS ratings are in general. it's nothing something you should use to base any assumptions on, promise lol.
Well, this is it really. some amps just arent suitable for either application, at least not seriously.
I havent either reaalllly, at least not a proper headphone amp. I found my old D2 absolutely comical with my 650's, but the old thing im using now is ok. What it isnt up to scratch on is everything else - background noise, seperation, control, which is something entirely different to power handling..it does the job but there's room from some serious improvement.
OK - done a little more reading. Can find very little on headphone max power ratings but for speakers it seems to be the maximum the drivers can be subjected to for 8 hours without suffering physical or thermal damage (varies according to manufacturer). Peak or continuous use varies (helpfully).
Whether the testing is done in or out of the housing seems to vary according to manufacturer too.
Does Maximum Input Power correspond with either RMS or PMPO measurements for speakers? Or does that vary according to manufacturer too?
Whether the testing is done in or out of the housing seems to vary according to manufacturer too.
Does Maximum Input Power correspond with either RMS or PMPO measurements for speakers? Or does that vary according to manufacturer too?
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Actually - I found a PDF of the paper the two links I posted regarding input power were based on: http://www.rane.com/pdf/old/note100.pdf
Read in context, they are the measured power required to drive headphones to a maximum measured volume for two particular headphone amps - not just manufacturer's ratings as I had assumed.
For example: the HD600s have a sensitivity of 97db at 1mW. The amps were found to be able to drive them to 118db and 116db respectively using 140mW and 80mW respectively. The Max input power rating of the HD600s is 200mW, considerably higher than used by either amp.
It doesn't say whether the headphones in the trial still sounded clean at the volume they were being driven to.
Read in context, they are the measured power required to drive headphones to a maximum measured volume for two particular headphone amps - not just manufacturer's ratings as I had assumed.
For example: the HD600s have a sensitivity of 97db at 1mW. The amps were found to be able to drive them to 118db and 116db respectively using 140mW and 80mW respectively. The Max input power rating of the HD600s is 200mW, considerably higher than used by either amp.
It doesn't say whether the headphones in the trial still sounded clean at the volume they were being driven to.