Resignation - HR Issue
- Thread starter mg3091
- Start date
From a practical perspective, does it really matter?
What's the worst they can do? They can't sack you, you're obviously not expecting the day's pay anyway, maybe they might say "Didn't work his full notice period" on any future reference (doubtful, probably not worth the potential grief for them) and you have a conversation with future employers about their inability to communicate with you.
What's the worst they can do? They can't sack you, you're obviously not expecting the day's pay anyway, maybe they might say "Didn't work his full notice period" on any future reference (doubtful, probably not worth the potential grief for them) and you have a conversation with future employers about their inability to communicate with you.
There is nothing about working hours on the ACAS website, unfortunately, there may be something in OP's employment contract though.
www.acas.org.uk
ditto to citizens advice:
www.citizensadvice.org.uk
When the notice period starts - Notice periods - Acas
Advice for employers and employees on when the notice period starts.
ditto to citizens advice:
Check your notice period when resigning
Find out how much notice you need to give when resigning and how to negotiate a reduced notice. You can also check what happens to your holiday entitlement.
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Soldato
Agree with many of the others, you said what day you were leaving in your resignation letter and they never challenged it at the time.
That isn't what he's doing though, he's claiming the Friday as day 1, i.e. the day after he's handed in his notice. I guess it's like handing in notice on a Friday evening or a Saturday or Sunday and claiming Monday as day 1.
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There is nothing about working hours on the ACAS website, unfortunately, there may be something in OP's employment contract though.
When the notice period starts - Notice periods - Acas
Advice for employers and employees on when the notice period starts.
ditto to citizens advice:
Check your notice period when resigning
Find out how much notice you need to give when resigning and how to negotiate a reduced notice. You can also check what happens to your holiday entitlement.
The technical point will be when was the notice "given". I think it's fairly accepted notice begins the day after it was given, so the headache bit is the part before
Soldato
Be a shame if you felt a bit ill tomorrow morning. As others have already said, they had plenty of time to challenge it.
The technical point will be when was the notice "given". I think it's fairly accepted notice begins the day after it was given, so the headache bit is the part before
Yup, that's what I'm commenting on, I was looking for some mention of working hours etc.. but those links just mention it in terms of days if not mentioned in a contract, would be good to know if in fact after contracted working hours = next day if not otherwise specified in an employment contract but I couldn't find anything giving clarity on that either way?
I would imagine it's not considered a big enough issue to be worth writing into law specifically, as it's only ever going to end up being an argument over a single day that should be easily cleared up with a simple discussion by any company paying attention to the resignation letters they receive in the first place. Nor is it likely something that anyone has ever dragged through a tribunal or court case to establish any kind of precedent.
From a personal standpoint, I wouldn't entertain handing in my notice outside of working hours when no one will actually receive it - it only opens up potential for confusion really (that and i'd be doing it in person too ideally anyway).
I find it a bit like the people who email you at half past five then phone you first thing the next day to ask if you've sorted the thing they 'sent you yesterday' as if you've had ages to do it, when in working terms, it was only actually sent/received a moment ago.
From a personal standpoint, I wouldn't entertain handing in my notice outside of working hours when no one will actually receive it - it only opens up potential for confusion really (that and i'd be doing it in person too ideally anyway).
I find it a bit like the people who email you at half past five then phone you first thing the next day to ask if you've sorted the thing they 'sent you yesterday' as if you've had ages to do it, when in working terms, it was only actually sent/received a moment ago.
I went into a rabbit hole of the Employment Rights Act and the Interpretation Act!
I think ultimately it's a massive vague hole that probably relies on English interpretation. I like my version of the recipient needing to be able to receive the notice in order for you to validly give it but there's probably some case law out there that has decided it at some point. I'm not skilled enough to find it though.
Your boss may want you in, but does hr/company?
If you were explicit in your resignation email ie my last day is Thursday and this has been accepted, then your last day is Thursday!
Also, any good company will have revoked access to the building, systems etc.
Playing devil's advocate though, the company won't have received your email until working hours on the Friday.
I'd speak with hr and see what they are expecting from you.
If you were explicit in your resignation email ie my last day is Thursday and this has been accepted, then your last day is Thursday!
Also, any good company will have revoked access to the building, systems etc.
Playing devil's advocate though, the company won't have received your email until working hours on the Friday.
I'd speak with hr and see what they are expecting from you.
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Exactly this, they have had the notice for a month and had time before now to object. They can pay you till the end of Thursday if that’s when you’ve said your employment will end.
Assuming you work 9-5... giving notice at 1844 on Thursday really means you gave the notice on Friday, not sure how you expect anyone to read it that late on Thursday.
So giving 4 weeks notice on the Friday means the 4 weeks starts from the Monday. So yes you should be working tomorrow Friday your last day.
Not sure how this is even a question... its just common sense?
Whether you want to go in/care about losing a day's pay is another question, but your boss is correct IMO.
So giving 4 weeks notice on the Friday means the 4 weeks starts from the Monday. So yes you should be working tomorrow Friday your last day.
Not sure how this is even a question... its just common sense?
Whether you want to go in/care about losing a day's pay is another question, but your boss is correct IMO.
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Soldato
It's on your letter, if they felt really mean and could be bothered they might doc a day but I doubt it hr will struggle with anything remotely mathematical at the best of times if your boss doesn't kick up a fuss it's fine.
So it will be fine
So it will be fine
I went into a rabbit hole of the Employment Rights Act and the Interpretation Act!
I think ultimately it's a massive vague hole that probably relies on English interpretation. I like my version of the recipient needing to be able to receive the notice in order for you to validly give it but there's probably some case law out there that has decided it at some point. I'm not skilled enough to find it though.
Yeah, I mean I think these days people (especially people with management responsibilities) check their work e-mails on their phones etc.. after hours (what if you have an e-mail from NYC etc..) and in plenty of workplaces, people work later than 5pm even if that's the "official" finishing time. Ideally, OP should have done this in person at say 5pm and saved all this fuss, but I don't see there is a significant difference between say 5pm and a couple of hours later, it was still handed in on a Thursday there is a full working day afterwards and that is when the notice period should start.
If I were the OP and I really really didn't want to work tomorrow I'd just refer to ACAS and citizens advice websites neither of which mentioned working hours and which ostensibly both support the OP's position and state the notice period starts the following day, double-check the contract, and then put the onus on them to cite anything to show why handing in a notice on a Thursday evening counts as Friday and means the notice period can't officially start until the following Monday.
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Interestingly the ACAS page does discuss the opposite scenario - where an employer is serving written only notice to the employee and suggests that the notice period starts following a 'reasonable amount of time to read it'.
I wonder which bit of legislation provides for this and whether it would/could apply in the scenario we are discussing of an employee issuing notice in writing only.
It's interesting that the implication is that an employee has the right to reasonable time to read it but an employer is not extended the same courtesy
I wonder which bit of legislation provides for this and whether it would/could apply in the scenario we are discussing of an employee issuing notice in writing only.
It's interesting that the implication is that an employee has the right to reasonable time to read it but an employer is not extended the same courtesy
Yeah, the day after they've received the letter, seems like the same general principle in both cases
The holiday is an interesting one as you highlight, you get the letter on say a Wednesday but they know you're not back in the UK until say Sunday then it's reasonable that your notice only starts the following Monday.
I think the difference is that, at least as far as most employers are concerned, the employer isn't ever on holiday, if your direct manager is on holiday there is still likely someone in HR or another manager who can receive the notice. Perhaps it is unfair on a small business owner, on holiday, with a single employee though?
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Caporegime
When I handed my notice in before, I made sure I handed it before 9am to HR so there was no ambiguity that day also counted. In fact, I actually said to the lady in HR, "It is currently 8:56 am, (pointing to the clock) here is my notice of resignation."
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Yes but with the key word of 'received' not sent, which is the pertinent bit where what we're discussing is whether sending an out of hours email should constitute 'received' on the employers part or not.
Clearly for an employee ACAS would consider that they need opportunity to have actually received it and been able to read it before then starting a notice period the day following receipt.
Is it reasonable to assume an employer is considered to have 'received' something any time of day or night of a given day, regardless of their operating hours? I'm not sure it is but it would seem that's a matter of opinion and not legally defined anywhere.