Even though i don't plan on using this argument, it's an interesting debate - am i wrong for not checking the memory bandwidth or are they wrong for mislabeling the item? I don't expect to check the engine in a Ford Mondeo to prove it's a Mondeo, if it's being sold as a Mondeo i expect it to be built out of all the parts that give it it's title.
Returning a graphics card
- Thread starter pete248
- Start date
Even though i don't plan on using this argument, it's an interesting debate - am i wrong for not checking the memory bandwidth or are they wrong for mislabeling the item? I don't expect to check the engine in a Ford Mondeo to prove it's a Mondeo, if it's being sold as a Mondeo i expect it to be built out of all the parts that give it it's title.
I don't know the exact wording of the e-mail you sent them.
Under the Distance Selling Regulations a notice of cancellation is a notice in writing or in another durable medium available and accessible to the supplier (or to the other person to whom it is given) which, however expressed, indicates the intention of the consumer to cancel the contract.
You have 7 working days from the day following the day of delivery to notify the retailer of your intention to cancel the contract and return the goods under the Distance Selling Regulations.
As you received the card on the 11th then the 7th working day is today, Wednesday 20 June.
If you think that your original e-mail isn't sufficient to notify the retailer of your intention to cancel the contract under the DSR then you still have time to do it today.
As you say it's an interesting debate but as far as I can see you bought a GTX 460 and were sent a GTX 460.
There's no reason that you need to get into that discussion though as you can use the DSR.
You still have time to give the appropriate notification if you think your e-mails so far haven't (see my post above).
My exact email was this:
"Hello,
Recently I purchased an EVGA GTX460 graphics store from your store.
Unfortunatey, it was unspecified on your website that this was in fact
a version 2 model, incompatible to use with the original gtx460. Could
I please return it and have the return costs included in the refund?
What do I have to do to return the item? MY order number is *********.
Many thanks,"
And in the live chat i had earlier with them the guy did confirm receipt of the email on the 14th, but he never explained why i never received a reply.
"Hello,
Recently I purchased an EVGA GTX460 graphics store from your store.
Unfortunatey, it was unspecified on your website that this was in fact
a version 2 model, incompatible to use with the original gtx460. Could
I please return it and have the return costs included in the refund?
What do I have to do to return the item? MY order number is *********.
Many thanks,"
And in the live chat i had earlier with them the guy did confirm receipt of the email on the 14th, but he never explained why i never received a reply.
I still think you're wrong. However I don't know that either of us can prove it. I know that consumer law is more robust than people think, and while places like Trading Standards tend to be quite mealy mouthed about it, when I've taken legal advice it's been much stronger, and every company has agreed to go by the legal advice I've been given, apart from one and in that case the credit card company just took the money from them directly.
Ultimately though the only way it could be proven either way would be if the company still refused a DSR and for some reason the OP wasn't able to DSR it (all evidence says that he should be able to) and the company refused a SOGA return, and it went all the way to court...
In any case I don't want to be unpleasant to you - you're one of the most helpful people on here, but in this case I don't think you're right.
I suppose that sort of says it but as you still have time you can send them a more specific e-mail stating you wish to cancel the contract under the Distance Selling Regulations and receive a full refund.
As an example this is the information OcUK require:
This is what I sent and it seemed to do the trick:
I still think you're wrong. However I don't know that either of us can prove it. I know that consumer law is more robust than people think, and while places like Trading Standards tend to be quite mealy mouthed about it, when I've taken legal advice it's been much stronger, and every company has agreed to go by the legal advice I've been given, apart from one and in that case the credit card company just took the money from them directly.
Ultimately though the only way it could be proven either way would be if the company still refused a DSR and for some reason the OP wasn't able to DSR it (all evidence says that he should be able to) and the company refused a SOGA return, and it went all the way to court...
In any case I don't want to be unpleasant to you - you're one of the most helpful people on here, but in this case I don't think you're right.
We can quite happily disagree without any unpleasantness.
I guess we'll have to wait for a test case to resolve the legal question.
Thanks for all your help guys, i have sent a second email just now and specified the DSR as being valid with used/open items and that it is now the second email i have sent them notifying my wish to return the product under the DSR within the 7 day period. I will post with my results tomorrow!
Had an email back already:
"You purchased the card as it was described on the website. Version 1 & Version 2 are two different versions with totally different specifications.
The specifications of the card were clearly described on the website. You bought the card and later realised that this is not the one you wanted after attempting to install it on your system.
The 7 day DSR period does not allows you to try out the goods and return them. You can only examine them as you would in a shop. (You are not allowed to take the sealed wrapping of the item in a shop) take it out, try it out on a system and return it.
We cannot accept this card back as it is your fault that you did not carefully checked the specifications before buying. GPUs are sensitive components of a system and we cannot accept items back once they are used and original seals/shrink wrappings removed.
If you wish to initiate a charge back process please continue with it. Should the bank disputes this transaction we will provide them all information.
Thank you"
I emailed back:
"Please refer to this PDF
(http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/oft698.pdf)
that outlines the Distance Selling Regulations on the Office of Fair
Trading website. Please read Section 3.58 of the PDF file. It clearly
states that "Consumers are under a duty to take reasonable care of the
goods while in their possession as discussed in paragraph 3.44. The
DSRs allow consumers to examine goods they have ordered as they would
in a shop. If that requires opening the packaging and trying out the
goods then they have not breached their duty to take reasonable care
of the goods. In these circumstances you cannot insist that consumers
return the goods as new or in their original packaging. You may ask
consumers to return goods with the original packaging, but you cannot
insist on this. In the case of goods such as earrings that have
hygiene seals, you may require consumers to exercise reasonable care
by not removing the seals when examining them."
I have opened the package, and tried out the goods. This states that I
am not breaching my rights in sending back the graphics card under the
DSR. Additionally, it states that you cannot insist I return the goods
as new or in their original packaging.
Regards,"
I was also going to mention that even though the specifications were outlined, the product was mislabeled, but i thought i should just concentrate on disputing the DSR for now.
Edit: He has now replied with this.
"Dear
Please note the word *if* that requires, in this case it's not required as you had all the information you needed to decide to make your purchase. This does not means you ignore the specifications and try it out. In a shop, you cannot try out the goods this way. There is not a single shop in the UK that will allow you to test GPUs on counter.
Thanks"
I am needing help now, anyone with any ideas on how to reply would be much appreciated. The only thing I could mention would be that they labeled the product incorrectly on the product page, and that due to the varying nature of the specifications across different brands of graphics cards the only way I would have known is if I specifically looked at the memory bus width.
"You purchased the card as it was described on the website. Version 1 & Version 2 are two different versions with totally different specifications.
The specifications of the card were clearly described on the website. You bought the card and later realised that this is not the one you wanted after attempting to install it on your system.
The 7 day DSR period does not allows you to try out the goods and return them. You can only examine them as you would in a shop. (You are not allowed to take the sealed wrapping of the item in a shop) take it out, try it out on a system and return it.
We cannot accept this card back as it is your fault that you did not carefully checked the specifications before buying. GPUs are sensitive components of a system and we cannot accept items back once they are used and original seals/shrink wrappings removed.
If you wish to initiate a charge back process please continue with it. Should the bank disputes this transaction we will provide them all information.
Thank you"
I emailed back:
"Please refer to this PDF
(http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/oft698.pdf)
that outlines the Distance Selling Regulations on the Office of Fair
Trading website. Please read Section 3.58 of the PDF file. It clearly
states that "Consumers are under a duty to take reasonable care of the
goods while in their possession as discussed in paragraph 3.44. The
DSRs allow consumers to examine goods they have ordered as they would
in a shop. If that requires opening the packaging and trying out the
goods then they have not breached their duty to take reasonable care
of the goods. In these circumstances you cannot insist that consumers
return the goods as new or in their original packaging. You may ask
consumers to return goods with the original packaging, but you cannot
insist on this. In the case of goods such as earrings that have
hygiene seals, you may require consumers to exercise reasonable care
by not removing the seals when examining them."
I have opened the package, and tried out the goods. This states that I
am not breaching my rights in sending back the graphics card under the
DSR. Additionally, it states that you cannot insist I return the goods
as new or in their original packaging.
Regards,"
I was also going to mention that even though the specifications were outlined, the product was mislabeled, but i thought i should just concentrate on disputing the DSR for now.
Edit: He has now replied with this.
"Dear
Please note the word *if* that requires, in this case it's not required as you had all the information you needed to decide to make your purchase. This does not means you ignore the specifications and try it out. In a shop, you cannot try out the goods this way. There is not a single shop in the UK that will allow you to test GPUs on counter.
Thanks"
I am needing help now, anyone with any ideas on how to reply would be much appreciated. The only thing I could mention would be that they labeled the product incorrectly on the product page, and that due to the varying nature of the specifications across different brands of graphics cards the only way I would have known is if I specifically looked at the memory bus width.
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I'm off to work now so haven't got time to research this in detail.
The legislation is the The Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000.
I can't see in the actual legislation where it says you are only allowed to "inspect the goods as you would in a shop".
Section 10 sets out your right to cancel and the means by which you can do so. You've complied with that.
Section 13 sets out certain exceptions (none of which seem to apply).
Section 17 is about restoration of the goods to the supplier:
As far as I read the legislation then the retailer cannot legally refuse to accept your cancellation of the contract and is obliged to refund your money.
If you don't return the goods, or return them not in reasonable condition, then it would be up to the retailer to take the appropriate action.
Section 14 deals with the recovery of sums paid.
The supplier "shall reimburse", i.e. must reimburse.
Sorry to post and run but hopefully someone can fill out the blanks and perhaps put it in a form you can use.
The legislation is the The Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000.
I can't see in the actual legislation where it says you are only allowed to "inspect the goods as you would in a shop".
Section 10 sets out your right to cancel and the means by which you can do so. You've complied with that.
Section 13 sets out certain exceptions (none of which seem to apply).
Section 17 is about restoration of the goods to the supplier:
(2) The consumer shall be treated as having been under a duty throughout the period prior to cancellation—
(3) On cancellation, the consumer shall be under a duty to restore the goods to the supplier in accordance with this regulation, and in the meanwhile to retain possession of the goods and take reasonable care of them.
(a) to retain possession of the goods, and
(b) to take reasonable care of them.
(b) to take reasonable care of them.
(3) On cancellation, the consumer shall be under a duty to restore the goods to the supplier in accordance with this regulation, and in the meanwhile to retain possession of the goods and take reasonable care of them.
As far as I read the legislation then the retailer cannot legally refuse to accept your cancellation of the contract and is obliged to refund your money.
If you don't return the goods, or return them not in reasonable condition, then it would be up to the retailer to take the appropriate action.
Section 14 deals with the recovery of sums paid.
(1) On the cancellation of a contract under regulation 10, the supplier shall reimburse any sum paid by or on behalf of the consumer under or in relation to the contract to the person by whom it was made free of any charge, less any charge made in accordance with paragraph (5).
The supplier "shall reimburse", i.e. must reimburse.
Sorry to post and run but hopefully someone can fill out the blanks and perhaps put it in a form you can use.
It was quoted earlier in the thread where the DSR states about inspection as if in a shop, not actually trying first then sending back as used.
You have no right to refund under the DSR, the shop is right. You have no rights to claim under SOGA either as it is fit for purpose and is of satisfactory quality.
Suck it up lad, you made a mistake.
You have no right to refund under the DSR, the shop is right. You have no rights to claim under SOGA either as it is fit for purpose and is of satisfactory quality.
Suck it up lad, you made a mistake.
which includes seeing it working
It was quoted but not, as far as I can see, from the legislation.
Information provided in a guide of some sort is just the writer's non-legal interpretation of the legislation.
After a quick look all I can see the legislation requires is that reasonable care is taken of the goods.
It doesn't say anything about them being opened or unopened, used or unused, in their original packaging or not.
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- 1,779
You shouldn't say anything beyond "changed my mind" as they could use it against you and reject the DSR in rare cases according to another DSR thread on here somewhere.
Go to Citizens Advice, there is a distinction here:
http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gtx-460/specifications
Does it say in the description V2?
http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gtx-460/specifications
Does it say in the description V2?
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
I don't - I think he's right. The item is fit for purpose. The only way it could be not 'fit for purpose' is if the OP had specifically asked the retailer to advise him on a suitable card for working in SLI with his existing card. Had the retailer then recommended his current product as a result, this would be a clear case of a product thats not fit for purpose. However I'd imagine this didn't happen therefore its hard to see how its not fit for purpose.
[TW]Fox;22175973 said:
Agreed, although its a shame the is no comeback for them mis-naming the card (EVGA themselves call it the V2 in its name and on the box). However its pretty reasonable to expect that if you have the know how to setup SLI you should be able to check compatibility of the cards your using as SLi isn't standard configuration for a normal PC and the site would most likely have had the part number in the description which would have allowed easy checking on the EVGA website.
My advice would be to find somebody who wants to straight trade their V1 for your V2 as the V2 is a better card somebody should be up for it.
OT: What happened to the days of the faster/more ram/etc card castrating itself when SLi'd with a slower brother? or even the days of "hybrid SLi" that let you link say a 8600 with an 8800? seems like SLi is going backwards lol.
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- Joined
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- Newcastle U/T
Return it under your consumer rights, Distance selling regulations apply if bought online. they cannot refuse to allow you to return it.
EDIT: Ignore the fit for purpose malarkey.
Was the card advertised correctly?
There was some mention of a BW discrepancy earlier in the thread.
If the details clearly show that going from the specifications alone you would expect to receive a v1 card then get a screendump of the site.
the sellers view of DSR are somewhat skewed to say the least.
As mentioned above you could return it in anything you fancy not the original packaging.
DSR quite heavily favors consumers
Firstly get a screenshot of the site if needed.
Also if you can get a screenshot of another card on their site that lists v2 specs would be usefull.
Did you pay via Credit card or debit card?
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