Revitalise this grass (have dog)

[danlightbulb]

I briefly posted in another thread about buying an electric scarifier (Screwfix, £70).

This is my grass.

Dimensions are around 3-3.5m wide and 9m long.

Some sections seem ok, nothing special but there is grass there and not much weeds.

Other sections have no grass at all and are just a dirt patch.

We have a dog that wees on the grass and likes to dig occasionally. Some patches went yellow last year.

Garden is south facing so generally gets a lot of sun.

My understanding is that scarifying removes built up thatch. I can't see much thatch in it really. But the bare patches need new grass and the surface is pretty compacted.

The whole grass surface is not uniform, the grass is different colours and grows in different directions across the whole area. Probably different types of grass mixed in as it's been patched up over time.

I want to do something and I'd like to have a nice soft lawn even though it's small. What's there currently definitely needs thickening up.

I'm not sure if a scarifier is worth it even though even a hand rake scarifier is £30 so on that basis £70 for the electric tool seems pretty good value.

 

[Richie]

I have done a couple of lawn renovations and due to do another this year which, now I have experience, I hopefully wont have to do another for a while.

Basically a full renovation follows the same general steps (some are optional)

1. Cut the grass short. Scalp it
2. Aerate the lawn using a hollow tine aerator (optional) - this help decompact the soil as it removes plugs of soil all over the lawn allowing water/nutrients to get into the root system
3. Scarify the lawn - this removes thatch and opens up the top layer (the £70 scarifier will be worth it)
4. Apply some top dressing to level the lawn surface (optional and not required unless your lan is very uneven or you want a perfect bowling green style lawn)
4. Overseed
5. Top dress - cover seed with very thin layer of compost.
6. Fleece (optional and only required if soil temp is low)

One of the most important steps is the grass seed - you need to try and determine what kind you want - Rye, Fescue and Bent all have different characteristics but the choice is ultimately yours (just do some googling)


This year I am going for a Fescue/Bent mix as I simply cannot be arsed doing annual renovations any more and pure Rye grasses unfortunately require this due to the way they grow and then thin out in the Winter months allowing moss and weeds to creep in. Fescue and Bent do have the disadvantage of creating more thatch than Rye grasses due to their creeping nature but a quick run over a couple of times per season (Spring and Autumn) will be enough to keep it managed I hope.


Whatever you choose, the dog will have a big impact. The only real way to manage it is to either ban it from the garden (unfeasible) or to try and see when it pees and pour some water on it to dilute the urine as its the high concentration of ammonia that burns the grass.

 

[danlightbulb]

2. Aerate the lawn using a hollow tine aerator (optional) - this help decompact the soil as it removes plugs of soil all over the lawn allowing water/nutrients to get into the root system

I am thinking of drilling 1 - 1.5 inch holes across the surface using a 40cm long auger bit, and filling with sand/topsoil, to help with drainage. The soil is pretty solid clay across the whole site. This winter there was some water pooling in the middle of the lawn.

3. Scarify the lawn - this removes thatch and opens up the top layer (the £70 scarifier will be worth it)

Does the scarifier turn up the top layer of soil too? My grass doesn't seem to have much thatch in it, its just a fairly patchy area of thin grass and bare soil. What will the scarifier do in these conditions?

One of the most important steps is the grass seed - you need to try and determine what kind you want - Rye, Fescue and Bent all have different characteristics but the choice is ultimately yours (just do some googling)

Couple of comments on this.

First, big box stores and garden centres sell grass seed, but it doesn't seem to give you the mix of seed used.

If I go to a dedicated grass seed site, like 'The Grass People', I can choose from specific mixes. Their 'Family kids and pets' seed is 80% ryegrass and 20% fescue. There is one on Amazon as well called 'Sprogs & Dogs Ultra Hardwearing Grass Seed by Lawn UK' but again it doesn't specifically tell you the mix, it just says "Combines ryegrasses, fescues and bentgrass".

So I'm not sure what I need? The resilience of the ryegrass seems a good idea but the creeping nature of the fescue also seems a good idea. What would happen if I used a more fescue oriented grass rather than a ryegrass, with the dog?

The Grass People also have a mix stated as being designed for clay soils. I have clay soils so is this another option for me? But that product doesn't mention dogs.

Whatever you choose, the dog will have a big impact. The only real way to manage it is to either ban it from the garden (unfeasible) or to try and see when it pees and pour some water on it to dilute the urine as its the high concentration of ammonia that burns the grass.

Yeah its unfeasible to stop him. I can't be following him round with the watering can 4x per day or more, that's just impossible.

I will have to just keep patching up the lawn regularly.

 

[bazzabear]

There's a product called Dog Rocks, which you put in their water bowl. The science (as they describe it themselves, and especially the claims they make to justify why you should buy their product not any competitors) is a bit sketchy sounding. But I have to say that they worked pretty well with our dogs on stopping their piddle from killing the grass. We stopped getting the yellow patches.

But with a relatively small garden, that's only half the battle. Having a dog scampering around it is unavoidably going to do some damage, and especially in winter.

I can't tell you what solution we ended up with - it'd get me hounded (lolz) off the forum.

 

[Richie]

I am thinking of drilling 1 - 1.5 inch holes across the surface using a 40cm long auger bit, and filling with sand/topsoil, to help with drainage. The soil is pretty solid clay across the whole site. This winter there was some water pooling in the middle of the lawn.

Definitely a good idea. A bit more work but the benefit should be better.

Does the scarifier turn up the top layer of soil too? My grass doesn't seem to have much thatch in it, its just a fairly patchy area of thin grass and bare soil. What will the scarifier do in these conditions?

If its set low enough it will leave grooves in the surface of the soil. This is where the seed will drop into but it wont turn the soil over, that is what a rotovator/cultivator is for but this is not required and all you risk doing is pullin gweed seeds up from underground where they will then germinate as they have access to the light and heat more easily.

Couple of comments on this.

First, big box stores and garden centres sell grass seed, but it doesn't seem to give you the mix of seed used.

If I go to a dedicated grass seed site, like 'The Grass People', I can choose from specific mixes. Their 'Family kids and pets' seed is 80% ryegrass and 20% fescue. There is one on Amazon as well called 'Sprogs & Dogs Ultra Hardwearing Grass Seed by Lawn UK' but again it doesn't specifically tell you the mix, it just says "Combines ryegrasses, fescues and bentgrass".

So I'm not sure what I need? The resilience of the ryegrass seems a good idea but the creeping nature of the fescue also seems a good idea. What would happen if I used a more fescue oriented grass rather than a ryegrass, with the dog?

The Grass People also have a mix stated as being designed for clay soils. I have clay soils so is this another option for me? But that product doesn't mention dogs.

There is a plethora of different bags of grass seed you can get - "hard wearing", "self repair", "shady areas" etc etc. They are all essentially from the 3 species of Rye, Fescue and Bent:

Have a look here for more info on grass types - https://lawnassociation.org.uk/uk-grasses-all-you-need-to-know/. This site does tend to promote the more native species of UK Grasses of Fescue and Bent over Ryegrass but they do give a lot of good information.


Edit - I will warn you though - the "Lawn Community" are a weird obsessive bunch and there are a lot of conflicting opinions especially on the type of seed to use.... Its a rabbit hole you may want to be careful going down

 

[Semple]

Best solution for the dog is to water in (dilute) after they've had a wee. I've never found the dog rocks work particularly well. It does require that you have to go out with them each time they need to go in order to see where they go.

Also I think just accepting that having a dog = lawn will never be perfect. Frankly you don't want to go to the effort of making a perfect lawn either as you'll just get annoyed at the dog ruining your hours of work just from them needing the toilet. Just have it in your mind that you're going to have to re-seed it every spring.

 

[danlightbulb]

There is a plethora of different bags of grass seed you can get - "hard wearing", "self repair", "shady areas" etc etc. They are all essentially from the 3 species of Rye, Fescue and Bent:

Have a look here for more info on grass types - https://lawnassociation.org.uk/uk-grasses-all-you-need-to-know/. This site does tend to promote the more native species of UK Grasses of Fescue and Bent over Ryegrass but they do give a lot of good information.

Thanks.

It does seem to make sense that a grass that creeps and grows more grass will be much thicker and less patchy than a grass which doesn't. So I'm not sure why the ryegrasses are so dominant in the mixes available?

It makes it difficult now because the mixes badged as hardwearing and good for pets are all ryegrass dominant. The fescue dominant mixes don't mention pet suitability at all. Does this mean they aren't, or is it just marketing BS?

 

[danlightbulb]

Just have it in your mind that you're going to have to re-seed it every spring.

Yep that's already what Ive accepted. Hence maybe buying the cheap scarifier is worth it?

 

[Richie]

Thanks.

It does seem to make sense that a grass that creeps and grows more grass will be much thicker and less patchy than a grass which doesn't. So I'm not sure why the ryegrasses are so dominant in the mixes available?

It makes it difficult now because the mixes badged as hardwearing and good for pets are all ryegrass dominant. The fescue dominant mixes don't mention pet suitability at all. Does this mean they aren't, or is it just marketing BS?

A lot of it is marketing BS TBH. Most people want an instant everything these days and lawns aren't immune to this so Ryegrass gets great reviews as its quick to establish (7 days) and quick to grow whereas Fescues (14 day) and Bent (21 day) are a lot slower. As with anything involved in gardening, patience and persistence pays off in the long run.

As I say, its a rabbit hole you dont really want to go down as the opinions are strong... Its grass FFS

TBH, from what is mentioned above (reseeding each year due to dog) - you would have to do that with Ryegrass anyways and its certainly the easiest to do (faster establishment and growing). A Rye/Fescue mix like THIS would be fine.


I am going for THIS one this year. Mostly for my front lawn which is North facing so, after a Winter, Ryegrass is just non-existent due to 0 light for the 4 months . I'll put the same on my South Facing rear garden as well.... Hopefully the Fescue/Bent mix will last better especially on the front garden and I wont have to do a full renovation again (just some scarifying or verticutting to keep thatch down)

 

[danlightbulb]

@Richie Ive had 'The Grass People's' clay mix and their family mix in my sights.

The family/pet mix has 80% ryegrass and 20% creeping red fescue.

The clay mix has 50% ryegrass, 45% tall fescue, and 5% smooth stalked meadow grass.

The one on Amazon ive been looking at is this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sprogs-Ult...lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&smid=A1W7R5335I52QD&th=1


How many hours of direct sun classifies as full sun vs shade? Im south facing so I get full overhead sun in the summer, but my garden is narrow so parts are shaded in the morning and in the evenings. In winter when the sun is low I still get sun but obviously the duration is much reduced.

 

[Richie]

The above are all Rye/Fescue mix so the choice is yours TBH. The Tall Fescue and Meadowgrass in the clay mix are deep rooting, hence why they put it in the Clay mix. It'll do well in droughts as the roots will go deep and get the water from there where it hasn't evaporated yet.

The Family/Pet and Sprogs mixes are the same (https://lawnuk.com/shop/sprogs-dogs-grass-seed/) - a mix of Ryegrass and Creeping Red Fescue.


Around 4-6 hours of sun/day is classed as full sun. A South facing garden will get this no problem. If there is a fence at the bottom (Southern edge) then this might prevent a band of grass getting the sun as its in the shade but the shaded bit on the East side will get the necessary sun in the mid-day/evening and the West side will get it in the morning/mid-day as the sun moves round (I assume that's what you mean by shaded parts in morning and evening)

 

[danlightbulb]

Ok I went and bought the scarifier.

Before and after:

It removed a surprising amount, probably 15 baskets full.

 

[Semple]

It's quite horrifying if you have a lot of moss. Bottom of my garden sits in a lot of shade (south facing behind fence + tall tree). Moss is rife around that area. I remember taking a scarifier to it and pretty much being left with just the soil underneath. It looked like the lawn had been scalped.

 

[danlightbulb]

Hardly any moss in mine, it was all fine grass clippings that came out. Should compost well.

But there is barely any grass left now, I guess it was very thin in the first place.


Ordered the clay mix from The Grass People. Will get a few bags of topsoil too to top dress it once the seed is down.

Couple of dips to fill in as well.

 

[Richie]

Hardly any moss in mine, it was all fine grass clippings that came out. Should compost well.

But there is barely any grass left now, I guess it was very thin in the first place.


Ordered the clay mix from The Grass People. Will get a few bags of topsoil too to top dress it once the seed is down.

Couple of dips to fill in as well.

If the dips are deep, you're better off with some topsoil to fill it in (you can get bags for a few quid) as compost, by its very nature, will eventually rot away.

Top dressing with compost - you are only looking to put a thin layer of compost of the seeds to cover them. Until then, try and keep off the scarified grass as the grooves that it leaves are great for the seed to drop into and walking on it will start to close them up again... Its not vital, just another thing to encourage germination through seed to soil contact.

 

[danlightbulb]

What lawn edging have people used or recommend? I'd like something relatively solid, those metal strip ones look decent but a bit more expensive that I want really. Could use a row of block paving bricks or just a row of cobble stones.

Anyone have any suggestions for how I can shape the lawn as well? Its a bit awkward with it being so narrow. I don't like that curve I tried to put in at the bottom right of the picture (near my new wall). Eventually be removing the slabbed path on the left hand side of the garden to make that flower bed wider.

 

[Richie]

I should add - you need SOIL temp of around 10oC for germination so don't expect any germination until you get a good few days of this temp in the soil

What lawn edging have people used or recommend? I'd like something relatively solid, those metal strip ones look decent but a bit more expensive that I want really. Could use a row of block paving bricks or just a row of cobble stones.

Depends what you want it to be like... Some people use the concrete edging stones laid on their sides (this kind of thing - https://www.wickes.co.uk/Marshalls-Round-Smooth-Edging-Stone---White-600-x-150-x-50mm/p/220357?fix)

Anyone have any suggestions for how I can shape the lawn as well? Its a bit awkward with it being so narrow. I don't like that curve I tried to put in at the bottom right of the picture (near my new wall). Eventually be removing the slabbed path on the left hand side of the garden to make that flower bed wider.

Shaped how? Like curves and stuff? For something of the width you have, I wouldn't bother. You may think it will look smarter but it just turns into a ball ache to cut and maintain. A plain rectangular lawn is perfectly fine.

Regarding the bed on the left - be careful not to make it too wide as you want to be able to reach right to the back once its all planted so making it too wide will mean you are stretching out a lot.

 

[danlightbulb]

Depends what you want it to be like... Some people use the concrete edging stones laid on their sides (this kind of thing - https://www.wickes.co.uk/Marshalls-Round-Smooth-Edging-Stone---White-600-x-150-x-50mm/p/220357?fix)

I was initially thinking the metal edging that you hammer into the ground: https://www.ultimate-one.co.uk/lawn-edging-c-222

But maybe it would be better to have something that the wheel of the mower can ride on as its pushed down the edges of the lawn, to get a nice flush cut. So a row of those kerbstone type things you linked to or just a row of bricks.

 

[Richie]

So a row of those kerbstone type things you linked to or just a row of bricks.

That's a personal choice... The longer kerbstones would be easier to get a nice flat run compared to bricks which may shift over time but the bricks MIGHT look nicer (again personal choice)

 

[danlightbulb]

That's a personal choice... The longer kerbstones would be easier to get a nice flat run compared to bricks which may shift over time but the bricks MIGHT look nicer (again personal choice)

Does this look alright?