What would that have to do with anything?.
Are you implying that some things created by man are real & have uses, therefore anything created by man is real & useful?.
Richard Dawkins sums up religion
- Thread starter Merlin5
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Are you implying that some things created by man are real & have uses, therefore anything created by man is real & useful?.
Man created Jedward... just think about that...
I'm asking whether mathematics is "real" or whether it's something humans invented. Not voting either way for "useful".
It's not that easy to say whether we invented maths or whether we discovered maths. Similarly it's tricky to say whether we invented God or discovered God.
It's not that easy to say whether we invented maths or whether we discovered maths. Similarly it's tricky to say whether we invented God or discovered God.
Woah, you discovered God? Can you share this discovery in the same way as a mathematical principle, or is it a mere, speculative belief?
I misinterpreted your post.. Whether you believe we invented or discovered god depends on whether you believe in his existence, I guess.
Mathematics is clearly real, whether we discovered or invented it is just a matter of interpretation.
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That's like saying did we discover or invent meters and centimeters? We didn't discover the meter, nor did we discover algebra - they're inventions to make it easier to figure things out about the world.
Even if there were no human beings, things would maintain their length and numbers, E=mc2 would still be true, but ideas of god wouldn't be anywhere.
If you can show any evidence that god has been discovered I'll go to church tomorrow.
Associate
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The cookie monster is real. I seen him on tv.
Mathematics is conceptual. If there are no minds to conceive math then math does not exist. You can not go out into a field a dig up some calculus.
However, it could be said with regard to logic that mathematics is a logical absolute, a tautology, in which case the predictions math makes would still be valid without any minds in the universe but would math still exist ? No, but 2 rocks + 2 rocks would still equal 4 rocks even in a universe without minds, there would simply be nobody around to appreciate the fact and call that fact, math.
Soldato
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Mathematics is conceptual. If there are no minds to conceive math then math does not exist. You can not go out into a field a dig up some calculus.
However, it could be said with regard to logic that mathematics is a logical absolute, a tautology, in which case the predictions math makes would still be valid without any minds in the universe but would math still exist ? No, but 2 rocks + 2 rocks would still equal 4 rocks even in a universe without minds, there would simply be nobody around to appreciate the fact and call that fact, math.
MATHS
You live in Darlintgton, not Los Angeles
Mathematics is conceptual. If there are no minds to conceive math then math does not exist. You can not go out into a field a dig up some calculus.
Good job dolphins was around long before humans "Dolphins use Complex, nonlinear math appears to explain a primary dolphin hunting technique"
So dolphins new about maths before man
@ V-Spec
I believe you might be missing the point. Not every religion (using the term loosely) points to a literal God and there is still an experiential or personal component (you know) to the one's that do? Maybe this is what Koolpc is trying to say and maybe it will be something else that would drive you to church one day ?
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Soldato
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There is no God. I can't really explain, it's just obvious.
Non believers are bound to say that!
People just don't understand, they say the love from my Teddy Ruxpin isn't real, but how can I feel it if it isn't real?
@ V-Spec
I believe you might be missing the point. Not every religion (using the term loosely) points to a literal God and there is still an experiential or personal component (you know) to the one's that do? Maybe this is what Koolpc is trying to say ?
Well this is the point.
If you're reduced to saying that god is a personal discovery, in that you can only find him inside your own mind - then it isn't really a discovery.
It's like an imaginary friend - it's not a discovery, it's just something you've invented and put inside your own mind to make you feel good, it's an idea or invention, not a proper discovery.
Human beings do this sort of thing all the time for all manner of reasons, it's not exactly a phenomena reserved for god.
I'm on the fence here, but I have to point out that if God exists, He's doing a ******* poor job of it. Most of the world is a dump, and genuinely terrifying and awful things happen to perfectly innocent people on a daily basis - if He is omniscient then He sees this; if He is omnipotent then He doesn't care.
Would anyone like to give the opposing argument to the above?
Would anyone like to give the opposing argument to the above?
Nobody ever said it was but there is no reason why it couldn't be as a lot of the annactdotal evidence suggests it is regarding chance encounters with the Divine. Incidently I like your abuse of the term discovery. Since when as self reflection and contemplation not been classed as "proper discovery"?
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Good job dolphins was around long before humans "Dolphins use Complex, nonlinear math appears to explain a primary dolphin hunting technique"
So dolphins new about maths before man
Not sure about those dolphins, but there are quite a few examples in nature of a sort of maths such as honeycombs being hexagonal for maximum efficiency, or how certain cicadas only emerge from underground to breed in prime number intervals to reduce the chance of interbreeding and minimise the amount of time they're exposed to predators/bad weather.
https://student.societyforscience.org/article/prime-time-cicadas
It's a dump etc because of 'Man' not God. He has given us free will, free reign so to speak. If we **** it up then we only have ourselves to blame! The works is a terrible place because of man.