RIP Chris Kyle

[Craterloads]

Perhaps. I don't mind criticism or even judgement if it is justified, however assumption and ideology seem to to be the flavour of the day.

I am sure Craterloads and those that share his viewpoints think I am a disgusting person with no morals who murdered people for some macabre self satisfaction and they are entitled to that view.....Soldiers have died so he or people like him could continue to express it so let them. I know what I have done, both the good and bad, I judge myself far more harshly than they ever could and I also take solace in those I may have helped some along the way as well as struggle with those things that I wish I had not had to do.

Neither life nor the world in which we life is as black and white as some would like it to be.

I'm not judging you or soldiers in general, I'm sure your a decent human being and your view points, in my opinion, back that up. Not attacking you or soldiers for that matter.

 

[davestar_delux]

It is when you do so from a position of ignorance, people are making legal judgements on soldiers without any idea of what they do, why they do it or the both the consequences and benefits both to the individual and society in general.

No-one mentioned putting anyone on a pedestal and no one is exempt from criticism for their actions....however before making such judgements and criticisms at least know what the hell they are talking about.

Misconceptions like 'carrying out orders without question' for example.

What legal judgement? Calling them murderers? You were correct, the killing is exempt in law so it is not murder. I think you well know it is the act of killing that most people have issue with and are choosing the wrong word to convey their distaste or worse.

Why is this thread here if not to put a soldier on a pedestal? Commending his lifetime achievement of 100 kills? I don't wish to glory in any persons death which is why it is important to point out that what this man did is not a good thing just because his profession was a soldier. And far too many in Britain seek to make that connection without question.

You are not the only person with military experience and knowledge so to simply label everyone else ignorant isn't good enough. I know the consequences and benefits of military action and I believe there is an alternative to most of the action we have undertaken. And if more people had the bravery to not join or even resign from the armed forces then the government could not have went to a war that 1 million people protested against before it happened.

I am not wrong about carrying out orders without question - this is in fact trained in, believe in your superior officers, justify your actions by saying you don't have the full picture, have trust in the intelligence that you don't know. They already accept the moral that it is acceptable to kill when they sign up, what questioning are people like that likely to do after that? Not much in my opinion.

 

[Craterloads]

Holding a grenade would certainly dispel her from the innocent civilian list.

If I was holding a grenade threatening people I would be expecting to be shot.

Next.

People? You mean invading forces?

If I broke in to your house and you tried to defend yourself with a knife and your house does that make you a non innocent civillian? Do I have the right to kill you then?

 

[shuzzbutt]

Nobody forced him to join the army. It was his choice to join the army. He must have known what being in the army involved. He was very good at what he did.

I have made a choice not to join the army. I do not like the idea of what the army does.

I would not feel comfortable using any weapon against another human and doubt I have the capacity to deal with the consequences of taking a life. I would not have the guts to take the life of even the most heinous person.

Not sure why I'm posting this but it's how I feel after reading the past 4 pages.

 

[Shayper]

People? You mean invading forces?

If I broke in to your house and you tried to defend yourself with a knife and your house does that make you a non innocent civillian? Do I have the right to kill you then?

Well, if I had previously killed several thousands of people by authorising flying a plane into a building, yes. Or, if my country did that, I certainly wouldn't be holding a grenade, I would be helping said authority to catch the scumbag who did as such.

NEXT.

 

[Jason2]

Shayper, you were just a kid when we entered the ILLEGAL war. I suggest you do some research because your ignorance is plain for all to see.

There are no heroes in war, only victims.

 

[Craterloads]

Well, if I had previously killed several thousands of people by authorising flying a plane into a building, yes. Or, if my country did that, I certainly wouldn't be holding a grenade, I would be helping said authority to catch the scumbag who did as such.

NEXT.

This is Iraq, what did Iraq have to do with flying planes into tall building aka 9/11? Lol

 

[Shayper]

Shayper, you were just a kid when we entered the ILLEGAL war. I suggest you do some research because your ignorance is plain for all to see.

There are no heroes in war, only victims.

And your arrogance is astounding.

For one, I did not call him a hero, I simply said that a lot of people's comments in the thread have been entirely disrespectful and abhorrent.

Also, tell me again why the war was illegal? Or are you going to ignore a question that doesn't fit in with your tight set of beliefs?

Just so you know, I was no more happy with the outcomes of said wars than you were, however I certainly am not going to be disrespectful towards fallen soldiers.

I thought Christianity taught forgiveness to all men? Or are you again disregarding anything that doesn't support your argument?

Yes, I was a child when we entered the war, but I'm pretty sure that I am not now. In fact, I'd go as far to say that I have a firmer grasp of socio-economic issues and politics than you do.

 

[sports_brah]

Nobody forced him to join the army. It was his choice to join the army. He must have known what being in the army involved. He was very good at what he did.

I have made a choice not to join the army. I do not like the idea of what the army does.

I would not feel comfortable using any weapon against another human and doubt I have the capacity to deal with the consequences of taking a life. I would not have the guts to take the life of even the most heinous person.

Not sure why I'm posting this but it's how I feel after reading the past 4 pages.

If there was some indistinct fellow a couple hundred meters away, killing and maiming people with his ak, or preparing to detonate an IED with your destruction in mind, I think you probably would.

Not saying you wouldn't regret it later. p)

 

[SHEDDER1uk]

I am not a fan of the war myself but the guys and girls there are doing their job to the best of their ability. Someone with a grenade would get shot by me no question asked. The dirty terrorists would not hesitate to kill them.

 

[Castiel]

Was that woman he shot in Iraq well versed in arbitrary killing of others? Or was she simply defending her country from occupying forces? The entire war was sold on a lie carried by troops not questioning their leaders, they are all as bad as each other.

You don't know what that woman was doing, what her affiliations were, or what her motivations were. What Chris Kyle did know is that she was an clear and present danger to the lives of others. Whatever the reasons for the War and whether our democratically elected Governments lied to get us into it or not is immaterial at this point. Chris Kyle is no more responsible for the actions of his Government than you are of the action of yours....

I fought in Iraq, I nearly died in Iraq, friends of mine did die in Iraq. This isn't your fault, and you can criticise all you like, but before you do I would like to say that whether you believe this or not, My friend was severely injured (and later died) while part of a group defending a building that held Iraqi men, women and children hiding from an insurgent group tasked to kill them. Yeah, the Iraq War was probably a mistake in hindsight, but don't simply assume that those that fought in it were killing just for the sake of it, or that killing was what it was really about. I spent more time building hospitals, schools and protecting Kurdish civilians than actually killing anyone.

 

[Shayper]

This is Iraq, what did Iraq have to do with flying planes into tall building aka 9/11? Lol

Or commissioning genocide. If you are referring to the first gulf war. I still most certainly would not be defending such a leadership regime.

I apologise for my mistake, but my above comment still stands.

NEXT.

 

[Jason2]

And your arrogance is astounding.

For one, I did not call him a hero, I simply said that a lot of people's comments in the thread have been entirely disrespectful and abhorrent.

Also, tell me again why the war was illegal? Or are you going to ignore a question that doesn't fit in with your tight set of beliefs?

Just so you know, I was no more happy with the outcomes of said wars than you were, however I certainly am not going to be disrespectful towards fallen soldiers.

I thought Christianity taught forgiveness to all men? Or are you again disregarding anything that doesn't support your argument?

Yes, I was a child when we entered the war, but I'm pretty sure that I am not now. In fact, I'd go as far to say that I have a firmer grasp of socio-economic issues and politics than you do.

If that makes you happy, kid, then who am I to take that joy away from you?

Anyway, have weapons of mass destruction been found in Iraq? The answer is no.

 

[MeEsH BaKkA]

I'm a believer of free will, you are responsible for your own actions. No one can force you to kill, that's a personal decision and this disgusting human being chose to kill 100+ people.

Potentially how many lives have been saved by the killing of these 100+ people?

These being shot by a sniper have most likely been observed and shot after a lot longer time than the average fire fight in a village or field, i.e were probably shot for a very good reason.

 

[Shayper]

If that makes you happy, kid, then who am I to take that joy away from you?

Anyway, have weapons of mass destruction been found in Iraq? The answer is no.

No, but was genocide commissioned by the leader of said country? Yes.

Did said country and affiliated targets have disgusting attitudes towards women and the sanctity of human life, and human rights? Yes.

All in all, I'd say it was worth it to try and stop these two things even if no WMD's were found.

 

[Shayper]

Potentially how many lives have been saved by the killing of these 100 people?

These being shot by a sniper have most likely been observed and shot after a lot longer time than the average fire fight in a village or field, i.e were probably shot for a very good reason.

Yeah, Hitler probably shouldn't have been hunted down either, or Osama Bin Laden.

LOGIC. INFALLIBLE.

 

[Craterloads]

You don't know what that woman was doing, what her affiliations were, or what her motivations were. What Chris Kyle did know is that she was an clear and present danger to the lives of others. Whatever the reasons for the War and whether our democratically elected Governments lied to get us into it or not is immaterial at this point. Chris Kyle is no more responsible for the actions of his Government than you are of the action of yours....

I fought in Iraq, I nearly died in Iraq, friends of mine did die in Iraq. This isn't your fault, and you can criticise all you like, but before you do I would like to say that whether you believe this or not, My friend was severely injured (and later died) while part of a group defending a building that held Iraqi men, women and children hiding from an insurgent group tasked to kill them. Yeah, the Iraq War was probably a mistake in hindsight, but don't simply assume that those that fought in it were killing just for the sake of it, or that killing was what it was really about. I spent more time building hospitals, schools and protecting Kurdish civilians than actually killing anyone.

Who cares what her affiliations were, she was an Iraqi citizen defending her country. Just like your mother or sister may have had to do if the French decided they wanted to invade tomorrow. She was in the right.

This is not about you, Kyle on the other hand was simply a killing machine while you had other duties, you are not comparable.

The majority of the country did nit want war, we questioned the evidence at the time. Why didn't you and your buddies? You shouldn't have been their in the first place which is blatantly obviouse, resulting in you always being the aggressor and there for in the wrong.

Whilst I appreciate once you were there and in defending yourself you had to kill, I can't condem that ad simply an act if survival.

 

[Shayper]

Who cares what her affiliations were, she was an Iraqi citizen defending her country. Just like your mother or sister may have had to do if the French decided they wanted to invade tomorrow. She was in the right.

This is not about you, Kyle on the other hand was simply a killing machine while you had other duties, you are not comparable.

The majority of the country did nit want war, we questioned the evidence at the time. Why didn't you and your buddies? You shouldn't have been their in the first place which is blatantly obviouse, resulting in you always being the aggressor and there for in the wrong.

Whilst I appreciate once you were there and in defending yourself you had to kill, I can't condem that ad simply an act if survival.

You seem to have conveniently ignored my last answer, where I explained this.

 

[Robbo]

Perhaps only someone with a military background gets it.

What do you mean here exactly?

I think the difference is clear as day between regular killing and killing in a war environment. I don't have a military background.

I also find it extremely strange that a select few people here want to glorify or defend enemy combatants...

 

[MeEsH BaKkA]

Yeah, Hitler probably shouldn't have been hunted down either, or Osama Bin Laden.

LOGIC. INFALLIBLE.

Sorry? Are you comparing the sniper in question to Hitler? I would have thought he had been shooting at armed men who would probably shot him or his comrades had the have the chance.