Ron Atkinson has quit ITV after rascist comment.

Gooner14 · 23 Apr 2004 at 19:41

Originally posted by Dtab
Possibly a poor choice of phrase in the context of the thread

Whoops! Didn't think off that!

Deadly Ferret · 24 Apr 2004 at 00:39

Originally posted by wohoo
The fact of the matter is he used the guys skin colour to **** him off (1), would he have done the same for say joe cole or scot parker, you white such and such etc, no i dont think so (2), why refer to th guys colour when he could have said french so and so or whatever. (3)

1. No it isn't. He slagged him off for being lazy. The reference to his race was incidental.

2. The difference there is that he is white himself, and so are the majority of people in this country. There's nothing unusual about it, whereas there is something mildly unusual about blacks because they still constitute less than 5% of the population.

3. Why not? What's the problem?

Ex-RoNiN · 24 Apr 2004 at 00:51

You can be racist without ever muttering one racist word, and you do not have to be racist if you ever mutter a racist word.

Some people seem to be having problems with this simple concept :confused:

Deadly Ferret · 24 Apr 2004 at 00:57

Dunno about the concept, but I'm having problems with understanding your post.

What's your stance on this? Do you think Atkinson is a racist, or just someone who got caught with his trousers down when blowing off steam?

Ex-RoNiN · 24 Apr 2004 at 01:10

Originally posted by Deadly Ferret
Dunno about the concept, but I'm having problems with understanding your post.

What's your stance on this? Do you think Atkinson is a racist, or just someone who got caught with his trousers down when blowing off steam?

My stance is perfectly explained by my philosophical genius

The man is god knows how many years old, he is starting to become senile and besides, he was well annoyed at Desaille playing crap, so considering all this, its well possible that it was a spur of the moment thing with no racist intention behind it.

Aye, was a nasty thing to say, but I am fairly sure he didn't mean it. I don't know about the media circus surrounding this issue as I'm not in England at the moment.

Spud21 · 24 Apr 2004 at 02:50

Originally posted by memphisto
yeah I do ? I know some of the history of the word and believe that it was once used in slavery but so what ?

If they call each other it why cant whites use it ?

that seems rascist against whites imho. Saying they are allowed to use the word be we are not

It is all to do in my eyes with how the word is used. The word it's self as with any other word can't be derogotory on it's own, it's not possibly for the latin word for black to be derogotory on it's own. I have a black mate who is regularly refered to as N by his close mates be they white or black. If it is used in a non derogotory way then it is not n any way offensive.

Eg, the words big nose are not offensive on their own, but if you have a good mate and for whatever reason call him big nose as a term of endeerment then he will not take offence, however if someone says you lazy bignose, it is then offensive, because it is being used as part of an insult.

Deadly Ferret · 24 Apr 2004 at 03:34

Originally posted by Spud21
Eg, the words big nose are not offensive on their own, but if you have a good mate and for whatever reason call him big nose as a term of endeerment then he will not take offence, however if someone says you lazy bignose, it is then offensive, because it is being used as part of an insult.

You say that if used as part of a positive statement it is of no consequence, but if used part of a negative statement it suddenly becomes relevant?! Bulldozers!

Whether you call someone a generous bignose or a sarcastic bignose, you're still referring to them as the bignose that they are, and incidentally so. It is the adjective that matters. You're either paying a compliment by calling them generous, or being negative about/insulting them by calling them sarcastic.

GBB · 24 Apr 2004 at 12:17

Originally posted by Ex-RoNiN
My stance is perfectly explained by my philosophical genius

The man is god knows how many years old, he is starting to become senile and besides, he was well annoyed at Desaille playing crap, so considering all this, its well possible that it was a spur of the moment thing with no racist intention behind it.

Aye, was a nasty thing to say, but I am fairly sure he didn't mean it. I don't know about the media circus surrounding this issue as I'm not in England at the moment.

Aye, that's well possible but he had to resign or be sacked for it.

I'm not saying for a second that it's comparable (even though I'm comparing it) but if you were "well annoyed at" someone and stabbed them to death on the "spur of the moment" would "I'm not a murderer" be a suitable defence in court???

None of us know Big Ron so none of us can really know but imo anyone that would use the 'N' word like that is likely have some level of deep seated racial prejudice.

Spud21 · 24 Apr 2004 at 12:23

Originally posted by Deadly Ferret
You say that if used as part of a positive statement it is of no consequence, but if used part of a negative statement it suddenly becomes relevant?! Bulldozers!

Whether you call someone a generous bignose or a sarcastic bignose, you're still referring to them as the bignose that they are, and incidentally so. It is the adjective that matters. You're either paying a compliment by calling them generous, or being negative about/insulting them by calling them sarcastic.

i know what you mean, but it's bloody hard to illustrate my point as there are very few words like ******, that are used in different contexts by different people. As i said I have black mates who have no qualms with being called ****** as long as it is not meant offensively. I personally do not do it, because i don't like the word myself full-stop. But it is just a word, but it is used a lot as a derogotory term but not always, i would say it is all down to the context in which it is used as to wheather it is offensive or not.

GBB · 24 Apr 2004 at 12:30

Originally posted by Spud21
i know what you mean, but it's bloody hard to illustrate my point as there are very few words like ******, that are used in different contexts by different people. As i said I have black mates who have no qualms with being called ****** as long as it is not meant offensively. I personally do not do it, because i don't like the word myself full-stop. But it is just a word, but it is used a lot as a derogotory term but not always, i would say it is all down to the context in which it is used as to wheather it is offensive or not.

The 'C' word is a good example, you might jokingly call a mate a jammy **** or something and that's fine, but woe betide anyone that uses the 'C' word against a women :eek:

Spud21 · 24 Apr 2004 at 13:00

Originally posted by GBB
The 'C' word is a good example, you might jokingly call a mate a jammy **** or something and that's fine, but woe betide anyone that uses the 'C' word against a women

Yep, thanks for that

I use that word towards mates, but wouldn't dream of using against anyone personally as an insult, well except for at the football, when many people including our own players have had that word directed at them.