Rugby union?

Soldato
Joined
13 May 2003
Posts
8,850
Btw anyone know if there's been a slackening of the offside rules? I'm seeing it go unpunished far too often.

I’m just watching the highlights and I was thinking exactly the same thing. England seemed pretty far up yesterday.

To be honest I generally think “elite” refereeing is a travesty. They have decided to ignore large parts of the laws to keep the game flowing yet are getting ridiculously harsh on some forms of foul play.
 
Soldato
Joined
20 Dec 2004
Posts
15,841
Btw anyone know if there's been a slackening of the offside rules? I'm seeing it go unpunished far too often.

Seems the offside line didn't exist this weekend. Italy were offside the whole game.

Gloucester likewise were yards off side in the quins game. Quins were absolutely garbage, but it didn't help the glaws players were up in their face so fast starting that far in front of the offside line.
 
Soldato
Joined
4 Feb 2003
Posts
6,118
Location
Birmingham
As I understand it much of leniency around the line speed defence off of the ruck is due to two elements that World Rugby will be discussing prior to the World cup, the first is the increased use of the caterpillar bind which many elite referees are extremely unhappy with as it's making it difficult to decide when to make the "Use it" call, the second is down to the number of scrum halves that are holding hands on a ball in a ruck faking difficulty in extraction to buy time.

Code:
Law 15 Ruck

The purpose of a ruck is to allow players to compete for the ball which is on the ground.

FORMING A RUCK

1. A ruck can take place only in the field of play.
2. A ruck is formed when at least one player from each team are in contact, on their feet and over the ball which is on the ground.
3. Players involved in all stages of the ruck must have their heads and shoulders no lower than their hips. Sanction: Free-kick.


OFFSIDE AT A RUCK

4. Each team has an offside line that runs parallel to the goal line through the hindmost point of any ruck participant. If that point is on or behind the goal line, the offside line for that team is the goal line.

5. At a ruck, the offside line runs through the hindmost point of the hindmost player of either team.


JOINING A RUCK

6. An arriving player must be on their feet and join from behind their offside line.

7. A player may join alongside but not in front of the hindmost player.

8. A player must bind onto a team-mate or an opposition player. The bind must precede or be simultaneous with contact with any other part of the body.
Players must join the ruck or retire behind their offside line immediately.

9. Players who have previously been part of the ruck may rejoin the ruck, provided they do so from an onside position.
Sanction: Penalty.


DURING A RUCK

10. Possession may be won either by rucking or by pushing the opposing team off the ball.

11. Once a ruck has formed, no player may handle the ball unless they were able to get their hands on the ball before the ruck formed and stay on their feet.

12. Players must endeavour to remain on their feet throughout the ruck.

13. All players in a ruck must be caught in or bound to it and not just alongside it.

14. Players may play the ball with their feet, provided they do so in a safe manner.

15. Players on the ground must attempt to move away from the ball and must not play the ball in the ruck or as it emerges.

16. Players must not:
    a. Pick the ball up with their legs.
    b. Intentionally collapse a ruck or jump on top of it.
    c. Intentionally step on another player.
    d. Fall over the ball as it is coming out of a ruck.
    e. Kick, or attempt to kick, the ball out of a ruck.
    Sanction: Penalty.

    f. Return the ball into the ruck.
    g. Take any action to make opponents believe that the ruck has ended when it has not.
    Sanction: Free-kick.


ENDING A RUCK

17. When the ball has been clearly won by a team at the ruck, and is available to be played, the referee calls “use it”, after which the ball must be played away from the ruck within five seconds.
Sanction: Scrum.

18. The ruck ends and play continues when the ball leaves the ruck or when the ball in the ruck is on or over the goal line.

19. The ruck ends when the ball becomes unplayable. If the referee decides that the ball will probably not emerge within a reasonable time, a scrum is awarded.

Quite a few referees at the top end of the game believe that teams are exploiting application of 15-17 and attempting to use 15-19 when convenient. The accepted wisdom is that as soon as the player in the half-back/acting half-back position places their hand on the ball they have made the decision to remove it and as they are protected by convention (not laws ;)) that they can not be interfered with until the ball is fully removed a grey area is occurring on timings that wily defence coaches are also exploiting.

But lets face it when you read the above law 15, pretty much every ruck in a game of Rugby should end in a penalty, free-kick or scrum so the whole thing is a lottery really.



As to the weekend games.
Yet again plenty of proof that England's new defence has already been worked out as being far to narrow when teams move wide quickly, which plays perfectly into the hands of Scotland next week and I see the Scots finally ending their Twickenham hoodoo.

Wales are being gifted a Grand Slam with teams just not turning up against them, which, yes, says a lot about how they are stifling teams with boredom and "safe" options but it's an appalling advert for NH Rugby. If they can only get themselves "up" for games against a single team in the World they are doomed to a fairly abject World Cup.

Ireland a poor shadow of last year, they peaked far to early and now you can see a permanent body language of frustration written on all their key players, they dominated a very poor France but showed virtually no bite, guile or scoring focus.


Next week, I can't see Wales losing against a fallen Irish side but it will quite possibly bee the dullest game of Rugby ever played with two sides that at the moment only know route one playing British bulldog with each other.

I suspect a Scotland victory due to England's weak wide defence and that being the area of Scotland's most potent attacking potential, add to it the point that Eddie Jones made, this is the one game Scotland care about. It will be a high scoring game though.

In the irrelevant game, I wouldn't be surprised if Italy finally manage to win if they can get some of their injuries back. Connor O'Shea deserves one with the changes he's trying to get through in Italy so they have a far more stable and productive long term foundation. France are the worst Les Bleu team I have ever seen and it's shocking that their League refuse to take any responsibility for the demise of what was once one of World Rugby's greatest side.
 
Last edited:
Associate
Joined
28 May 2017
Posts
550
Cant believe we have won 4 games playing the way we have!, wales haven't played nowhere near what they showed in the autumn,way too many errors and pens conceded, we need to turn it on for ireland.
 
Soldato
Joined
4 Feb 2003
Posts
6,118
Location
Birmingham
Tuilagi staying at Leicester is great news for England and the World Cup, he's starting to approach his best of six years ago when even the ABs were living in fear of him :)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/47524728



Starting to revise my opinion of the England v Scotland game with the number of back three injuries that Scotland have now confirmed but England are still going to have to do something to shore up that wide defence because Scotland will attack it at every opportunity, particularly on the counter at turn over ball because once Scotland have gone past four or five phases they panic and run out of ideas.
 
Soldato
Joined
13 May 2003
Posts
8,850
In other news I played rugby again last week for a Vets team and have ached like buggery ever since. Wonderful joyous foolishness. Tackled like a demon ran like I was possessed and I’m covered in scratches and bruises. I do love rugby.
 
Caporegime
Joined
13 May 2003
Posts
33,962
Location
Warwickshire
England are going to violate Scotland today. I'll be cheering on Ireland and I think they could do it.

Wales's performances don't deserve where they are in this competition.

It's going to be a very exciting day of rugby.
 
Soldato
Joined
4 Feb 2003
Posts
6,118
Location
Birmingham
In other news I played rugby again last week for a Vets team and have ached like buggery ever since. Wonderful joyous foolishness. Tackled like a demon ran like I was possessed and I’m covered in scratches and bruises. I do love rugby.

I fully gave up a couple of years ago after one to many neck injuries (I was a hooker), I was always told you know it's time to give up when you're still aching from the previous game the next Saturday game let alone midweek training :D

Although in my head I know I could still do this :p :D:
 
Soldato
Joined
13 May 2003
Posts
8,850
@TheMightyTen I feel your pain, I'm not sure how I'll cope when I'm not a player anymore. At the moment I ache so much because I'm not training enough. Last year I trained quite a bit but couldn't get a game and by the end of the season training wan't leaving my muscles sore for more than a day so I'm hoping if I can build up the training again I can condition myself to keep playing for a bit longer.

That is great video though, I do enjoy those charity vets games when they show them :D
 
Soldato
Joined
4 Feb 2003
Posts
6,118
Location
Birmingham
England are going to violate Scotland today.

England don't have a particularly good record against Scotland in poor weather conditions and the weather is set to be atrocious. If the game becomes scrappy it will please the Scots as it makes it so much harder to apply pressure. Positional play and Field position will be the key for today's game.

I'll be cheering on Ireland and I think they could do it.

Wales's performances don't deserve where they are in this competition.

Agreed, I've not seen such a dull pragmatic (read utterly boring) team since England 2003.

It's going to be a very exciting day of rugby.

Agreed again, even Italy v France has a decent subplot.
 

Stu

Stu

Soldato
Joined
19 Oct 2002
Posts
2,739
Location
Wirral
Btw anyone know if there's been a slackening of the offside rules? I'm seeing it go unpunished far too often.

I thought it was particularly prevalent in the Wales vs Scotland game... Wales up fast in combination with starting a good metre off side every ruck and maul meant Scotland were suffocated, leading to so many mistakes.
 
Caporegime
Joined
13 May 2003
Posts
33,962
Location
Warwickshire
Italy France is good fun. The Italians just make so many errors though.

I don't really understand the 'collapsing the maul' rule. The referees seem to only enforce it very sporadically, even when it's blatant.
 
Caporegime
Joined
23 Dec 2011
Posts
32,921
Location
Northern England
C'mon Ireland - 1 job. 1 bloody job!

Also multiple refereeing fails so far.

Love it when even the Welsh commentator is saying the ref is full of crap.
 
Last edited:
Caporegime
Joined
23 Dec 2011
Posts
32,921
Location
Northern England
Ireland are ranked number 2 in the world? I've never seen so many errors. The more cynical side of me is questioning whether it's deliberate. The more hopeful side of me is plain confused!

Wales aren't outstanding but they're not making mistakes. That's the key.
 
Soldato
Joined
13 May 2003
Posts
8,850
@SpeedFreak I have some sympathy for Ireland at the scrum too. I’m not convinced that they’re all penalties. How Rory Best is considered an international hooker is beyond me, he simply is inept at the line out and has been for years. He only gets away at all because none are straight.
 
Back
Top Bottom