Running costs

[Peerzy]

Just out of interest (and a bit of a debate here in the office) order these cars in terms of day to day running costs. So say over a 3 year period the cars at the bottom of the list you would expect to be the cheapest to run and the cars at the top the most expensive. Again taking out condition and just assuming they are all in 'good condition' and 3 years old (or the oldest new version of the car if it is less than 3 years old - eg. Merc C class would be the new 2007 shape and not the old shape). This should include insurance, petrol, tax, repairs, oil, tyres, services and anything else that would cost the user money.

S3
130i
330ci
530i
630i
z4 3.0
Focus ST
Mondeo 2.5T
Mustang GT (4.6l)
Civic Type R
S2000
Jag XF 4.2 V8
Elise
3 MPS
6 MPS
RX-8
C Class C350
SLK 350
350Z
Boxster S
Renaultsport Megane
Leon Cupra 2.0 16v FSI
Astra VXR
VXR8
Monaro

(Ordered A to Z by make)

 

[Peerzy]

Id imagine the Jaaaag and the 630i to be the most expensive to run.

Depends a lot on luck and if you know what to look for when buying, a tatty 330ci could be a minefield of problems, but a decent one cost nothing but consumables.

Depends on milage, driving style and the condition of the car.

Your going to wear the discs/pads out on a VXR/ R26R a lot quicker than you would on a 530i which would be used on the motorway rather than raced/rallied daily. Although they may cost less as a one off purchase you could go through them 3x as fast.

It's obviously a hypothetical question.

Imagine every car is 3 years 50k mileage in good condition, has a FSH etc...

It's a R26 not R26R btw.

Why the 630i Surely a 4.6l Mustang or Boxster S would cost far more to run than that?

Completely take initial purchase price out of the question. Just concerned about the running costs.

Yearly mileage would be your average 12k, 6k on motorway, 6k on A/B roads. Obviously with cars like this regularly pushed to the limits.

 

[Peerzy]

That's quite a list, and quite a variety of cost variables depending on usage patterns, mileage etc. (for example the VXR8 is quite cheap to service etc but horrific on fuel consumption).

The most expensive on the list are likely to be the V8s, then the 6's, then the 4's, but there are some anomolies (the S3 can easily cost more in fuel than the straight 6 beemers for example), the RX-8 is a wildcard with some quite scary ability to cost money at points, and the Boxster has the Porsche premium...

Exactly, I was interested to know if someone could have a crack at the list. People here have simply gone for the bigger the engine the more it's going to cost.

IE RX-8 going to cost less than the Mondeo 2.5T etc....

Personally I said the Boxtser would cost the most, followed by something like the Elise, S3, RX-8, Jag and then the 3.0 BMW's.

 

[Peerzy]

He's talking 3 years old though so both 530i and 630i will have the N52B30

So would I be right in thinking that running costs for the 130i, 330i, 530i, 630i and Z4 3.0i *should* all be pretty identical?

 

[Peerzy]

Do we count depreciation in this? It would be a real cost to the owner over three years.

I can't be bothered to do the whole list, but for me the Jag will be the worst. All the fuel costs of the other V8s without the compromise of having cheaper servicing and parts. Plus it'll depreciate quite badly I suspect. Horrific depreciation of the RX-8 might outstrip running costs of a lot of the other cars running costs too!

No depreciation in not taking into account. Only the money that the owner would have to pay out.

Suprised at the Elise being cheap to run, didn't see that one coming.

How about the S2000 and Type R? Same running costs as same-ish engine?

Focus ST and Mondeo 2.5T?

 

[Peerzy]

Totally depends on age there.

Stuff like the 5/630i will be quite average on costs, then one day, on schedule, the entire coolant system will turn to dust.

The Civic will probably age more gracefully than a lot of the list, same with the C350 maybe?

A few of these could land you with a massive bill any time they feel like.

I'm not going to put them in any order.

The age of them would all be the same, 3 years~.

I was thinking the Civic Type R would be the cheapest to run, possibly along with the Mondeo 2.5T. Which then made me think would the Focus ST and S2000 be equally as cheap?

why are we not taking into account depreciation?
on probably most cars there it will the single biggest cost?

as said above - 8cyl, 6cyl, 4 cyl will give you a rough idea.

I agree the depreciation on some of these cars will be massive. However it was simply a discussion about running costs. How much money you would need to put aside to comftably run each of these cars. You'll only feel the pain of the depreciation when you come to sell it, not suddenly half way through your ownership like tyres, servicing etc...

I agree going by cyl count gives a rough guide but isn't it likely that an S3 or S2000 would cost more to run than the V8 Mustang?

 

[Peerzy]

Perhaps in the US, but not in the UK, the prodigious thirst of the V8 combined with relative scarcity of parts and so on will mean running the stang isn't cheap, and the insurance won't be either.

Completely the opposite to what others have said. Low tuned V8 means things hardly ever go wrong, hardly any electrics to worry about and parts are generally cheap to get.

If something goes wrong, or is not maintained the S2000 could drop a £3k bill on your lap. That's not cheap.

Conversely if nothing goes wrong day to day, fuel and servicing is very reasonable. Too many variables to get a solid list out of that lot I think.

As for a S2000 versus a V8 Mustang, I think I would want more of a rainy day fund with the Stang than I would my S2000.

Righty well here is my list and see if people can point out where they think I'm wrong.

Boxster S
Jag XF
RX-8
350Z
Monaro
VXR8
Z4
S3
630i
530i
330i
130i
Mustang
SLK
C350
S2000
Elise
6MPS
3MPS
Civic Type R
Astra VXR
Megane
Focus ST
Cupra
Mondeo

 

[Peerzy]

I've updated the list now, how does this seem;

Boxster S
Jag XF
Monaro
VXR8
350Z
RX-8
Z4
S3
630i
530i
330i
130i
Mustang
SLK
C350
S2000
Elise
Focus ST
6MPS
3MPS
Mondeo 
Astra VXR
Civic Type R
Megane
Cupra

With the 350Z, I've also heard about crazy disc, pad and servicing costs. Plus the a big V6, RWD, 2 seater is not gonna be cheap on insurance.

Moved the RX-8 down a bit but still very high. Focus ST now higher along with Mondeo. Swapped Type R and Astra about. Mondeo up a few, still not sure if it would cost more than an Astra, Civic, Megane or Leon though.

 

[Peerzy]

Interesting.

How much was the insurance for you at 20 with 2 years ncb?

 

[Peerzy]

Elise needs to be much lower, its probably one of the cheapest cars there

I also don't see why the Focus ST is so much higher than the Astra VXR.

I'm so suprised about the Elise. I knew it had a small engine and was quick due to being lightweight but I assumed insurance and repair costs would seriously cost a lot.

What engine does the Astra VXR have? Assumng they are roughly the same for tax, insurance and repairs I've heard the ST engine sucks mega hard for the MPGz. Although the Mondeo would be even worse being heavier and that's only just above the Astra.

 

[Peerzy]

I only insured fully comp it from 21 years old. I did get a quote and it was about £1700 ish iirc

Still not *too* bad. Insurance for me is cheaper on a Boxster S (£1400) than it is on an S2000 (£1500)

 

[Peerzy]

Insurance on an Elise was cheaper for me than my Corsa VXR. Repair costs are no higher than any other car, IMO.

So apart from a high initial purchase price (no research done here) the Elise is a very cheap car to run?

Just looking at PistonHeads they're not even *that* expensive £18k for an 07 plate and hold their value amazingly £11k for a 2001 model.

Z20LEH/R IIRC, 2.0 Turbo. I can't see them being much better than the ST, they generally average around 26MPG from what I've seen/heard. The SO's brother achieved similar figures from his ST.

I'd probably say all of the 'hot hatches' are pretty close anyway. There can't be much in it between the Leon and Focus, but the difference between the Focus and an SLK or a 530i would be big.

 

[Peerzy]

I've read that Lotus servicing costs an arm and a leg as well?

 

[Peerzy]

Depends whether you're silly enough to take it to Lotus or not

So you would take your £15k bespoke Lotus to Bobs Garage down the road?

How much did you pay for a service when you owned one?

 

[Peerzy]

can't see why folks have Boxster S at top of list, tyres/brakes etc cost but a lot of stuff is relatively cheap

servicing / insurance

fuel consumption not that bad too

Which cars out of the list would be higher

 

[Peerzy]

I'm not sure why the Mercs are so low down. Have you seen their service and parts prices at the main dealer? This whole idea is flawed in any case unless we put some more parameters round it.

As mentioned before, fuel consumption will play a big part, but depending on the driver so will insurance. The difference for an old git like me between all the cars is probably a few hundred quid. However for a younger drive it will be '000s. Peerzy on that ordered list of yours, the Mustang, and probably the S2000, are going to shoot way above some of the BMWs for a young driver as the insurance hike will be a massive part of the running costs. For me not so and the fuel/servicing will be the major factor.

Thinking about it I do suppose to Mercs should be higher, parts are more expensive than BMW from what I've read and other variables should be the same as the BMW's.

Personally I'd discounted fuel consumption as a major factor because thinking the difference between the best MPG (one of the hot hatches at about 30MPG~) and the worst car (Mustang or something else at 18MPG-20MPG) wouldn't be big. Thinking about it 12k for 3 years would be a big difference.

Monaro, VXR8, 630i , Jag

on all of those depreciation woulld prob be higher than the entire cost of running the Boxster

Depreciation is not being taken into account for this as it's not a cost/bill you are going to have to pay out - it's money you are going to lose.

 

[Peerzy]

Not at all, owning a Mustang can work out much cheaper than many cars on that list. I agree petrol is not going to be cheap but that’s the case for anything with a bit of kick in it these days. To be honest I've only noticed a small difference in petrol cost over the 330ci I used to have.

Standard serviceable parts (plugs, filters, etc) are cheap as they are just standard ford items. As for the serving itself you can either do it yourself (nothing too complex and no advanced computers/electronics) or take it to one of the many specialists who rates are very reasonable (no fear of main dealer hourly charges).

If you need specialist parts or custom bits for upgrading then sourcing them from the states is simple, quick an no more expense than getting modified parts in the UK for UK sold cars.

Finally insurance, again cheap; assuming you are looking at a limited mileage policy (no one buys these to rack up 1000s of motorway miles) then there are a lot of custom/American car insurers that offer good prices, even for young drivers who wouldn't get insured on a large amount of cars in that list.

I know 21-25 year olds who are paying less for their stangs than they would for a basic saxo.

Sooooooo tempting! Would need a plate to get an insurance quote and doubt many American specialists would be pleased with me phoning them up having not bought the car yet!

Did a confused.com quote for all the cars (bar the top 3 - Mustang is obviously specialist only and didn't have time to find a reg for the C350 and XF 4.2).

350Z the most expensive, my Bravo the cheapest. 130i cheaper than an ST. 335i less than £1000!

 

[Peerzy]

I was keeping my thoughts largely to myself until the huge table of insurance costs appeared.

What is the point in this thread? I mean you actually went through and did a confused.com quote for every car involved? I mean... why? It can't be so you can narrow down your next car choice as you've got £50k cars and £10k cars in the list

Your insurance costs don't really show much - I actually insure a 530i Sport (Same insurance group and cost irrespective of age and value with my insurer) and its £300 a year cheaper to insure than a 335i M Sport is with them.

Nah it started out as talk in the office. It takes 30 seconds to check each one on confused, the details all stay the same just replace the reg and click get quote.

"A Honda S2000 thats gonna cost nothing to run it'll never blow up and only old people buy Hondas so cheap as chips to run"

"You need to be a millionaire to run an Elise!"

etc... and I was trying to prove to them that they have the wrong ideas in their head.

I'd consider a couple of those as 'next cars' but not for a while yet.

Interested me to see that the same engine through the BMW lineup costs different amounts.

Point of this thread - is it actually that expensive to run some of these cars? Some people in my office really did believe that an Elise/Mustang was such an uber rare expensive car that you really do need to be earning £100k+ to afford one.

 

[Peerzy]

Insurance wise of course it does - different ownership profiles mainly.

I was actually expecting the 5 to come out cheaper than the 3, being slower and seen as a more mature car.

Amazed at how much the RX-8 would cost to run (insurance, petrol, oil etc...).

 

[Peerzy]

Well I've just explained that different insurers see that differently.

The performance difference isn't huge because the weight difference isn't huge. There is only 50-100kg in it.

Yup, does go to show it's not all insurance groups, bhp and 0-62 times as the RX-8 is one of the lowest groups, smallest bhp and slowest cars.

Are there any online american car insurers or would I need to phone up?