Ryzen 2600 with 2080ti

[Squink]

I want to upgrade my PC but can't justify the outlay on what I really want, which is a 9900k + 2080ti. Therefore, I am considering spending as little as possible to get acceptable performance until the new AMD CPUs come along in July-ish.

If I bought a 2600 processor and stuck it in an MSI Tomahawk Mobo, with 16Gb of 3000 RAM and a 2080ti, will I definitely be able to drop in one of these 9900k-slaying Ryzen 3s in a few months time, or will there be loads of hassle in doing so?

The other thought I had was a 9900k with a vanilla 2080, but I don't think that would have the longevity in terms of graphics capability.

 

[LePhuronn]

There's nothing to suggest that the Ryzen 3000s won't work in 400 series boards. In fact, AMD have said that PCIe 4 can work with older boards, but it's at the discretion of the motherboard vendor to issue a BIOS update to support it, which therefore strongly implies Ryzen 3000s will drop into 400 and 300 series boards.

But that being said, what's the rush? Normally I'd advocate getting a cheapish Ryzen 2000 on a top-end board and drop in a shiny Ryzen 3000 when they launch, but we're only 6 months away now so there's more chance of buying twice and not recouping your original CPU purchase. AMD might pull an Intel and restrict the 16 core monsters to 500 series boards. Certainly we don't know what motherboard vendors are doing with PCIe 4 - graphics cards won't benefit from it, but it's possible they can distribute the lanes differently to enable faster storage and other things.

Honestly unless your existing system is 5 minutes away from catching fire I'd just wait a bit longer and then assess what the deal is.

 

[Squink]

Honestly unless your existing system is 5 minutes away from catching fire I'd just wait a bit longer and then assess what the deal is.

I'm putting together a second system to allow me to work and play in a different area of the house and I would prefer not to wait 6 or 7 months for it. By that time, there'll be newer, faster graphics cards around the corner and I'll be in the same boat. If I knew I could swap CPUs later (if I even felt it necessary), it would make the decision easier now.

Shame the 9900k is more or less as good as a graphics card upgrade at the 1440p resolution at which I play, when compared to any of AMD's current line-up, since it adds about £400 to the cost of a system build.

 

[Orange Nexus]

op, you can cheap out on the cpu but not the motherboard. Get at least a X470 like the Asus Prime Pro. The MSI board you pick might only have 128Mb of ROM. Get an AMD board with a 256Mb. Or, just wait.

 

[chrcoluk]

There's nothing to suggest that the Ryzen 3000s won't work in 400 series boards. In fact, AMD have said that PCIe 4 can work with older boards, but it's at the discretion of the motherboard vendor to issue a BIOS update to support it, which therefore strongly implies Ryzen 3000s will drop into 400 and 300 series boards.

But that being said, what's the rush? Normally I'd advocate getting a cheapish Ryzen 2000 on a top-end board and drop in a shiny Ryzen 3000 when they launch, but we're only 6 months away now so there's more chance of buying twice and not recouping your original CPU purchase. AMD might pull an Intel and restrict the 16 core monsters to 500 series boards. Certainly we don't know what motherboard vendors are doing with PCIe 4 - graphics cards won't benefit from it, but it's possible they can distribute the lanes differently to enable faster storage and other things.

Honestly unless your existing system is 5 minutes away from catching fire I'd just wait a bit longer and then assess what the deal is.

or he could buy now, enjoy it now (life is short after all), and no need to buy a 3000 when it launches, get 2 years out of it and buy a 3000 in 2 years?

Seems to be a strong opinion should either be brought at launch or wait.

 

[chrcoluk]

op, you can cheap out on the cpu but not the motherboard. Get at least a X470 like the Asus Prime Pro. The MSI board you pick might only have 128Mb of ROM. Get an AMD board with a 256Mb. Or, just wait.

I have a b450 coming for a 2600X, can you clarify why a x470 is needed for a 2600? thanks.

 

[Orange Nexus]

I have a b450 coming for a 2600X, can you clarify why a x470 is needed for a 2600? thanks.

It's just a rumor.

https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd/amd-300-series-am4-motherboard-3rd-gen-ryzen-backwards-compatible

But, to be safe, check the manual for that motherboard in the manufacturer's site. It should state how much ROM capacity it has. My Asus B350 only has 128Mb. My Asus Prime X470 has 256Mb. Rumor has it that the BIOS update to accommodate the Ryzen 2 will require more than 128Mb.

 

[Squink]

I'd be pretty cheesed off if I bought a (comparatively) gimped CPU to tide me over and then found the BIOS wouldn't update for the new gen stuff. Equally, I'm not an overclocker, so I don't want to throw big cash on a mobo with features I won't ever use.

I'll never go dual-card and I'll probably never muck about with voltages and so on.

 

[chrcoluk]

It's just a rumor.

https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd/amd-300-series-am4-motherboard-3rd-gen-ryzen-backwards-compatible

But, to be safe, check the manual for that motherboard in the manufacturer's site. It should state how much ROM capacity it has. My Asus B350 only has 128Mb. My Asus Prime X470 has 256Mb. Rumor has it that the BIOS update to accommodate the Ryzen 2 will require more than 128Mb.

Ok, but the article states the difference is not between X and B models but its between 3XX and 4XX so x370 and b350 are 16mb roms, and b450 and x470 are 32mb roms. So a b450 should be fine.

How does one check? I can check for the OP possibly as soon as tomorrow as my ryzen 2 parts are coming tomorrow.

 

[Squink]

How does one check? I can check for the OP possibly as soon as tomorrow as my ryzen 2 parts are coming tomorrow.

That would be appreciated, but there now appears to be an element of doubt about backwards compatibility. Today it's mobo ROM capacity, what if in two months time, further requirements creep in, or the manufacturer of a particular motherboard chooses not to provide a new BIOS? This was was all touted as being quick and easy (which it may be, but now I am feeling uncertainty).

 

[chrcoluk]

I dont see why b450 boards wouldnt work amd said themselves the chips will work in AM4 sockets.

Sadly there is a lot of scaremongering that happens on the net I dont know hy but other than to try and justify people buying the expensive parts. Even this VRM spreadsheet the author admits that that b450 VRMs are fine, the issue is only with extreme overclocking of the very top end sku.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-ZwVuH_tinzgpsOdfMvYeCLI5ZbIpnq5fyiWD4NCkkU/edit#gid=0

 

[Orange Nexus]

Ok, but the article states the difference is not between X and B models but its between 3XX and 4XX so x370 and b350 are 16mb roms, and b450 and x470 are 32mb roms. So a b450 should be fine.

How does one check? I can check for the OP possibly as soon as tomorrow as my ryzen 2 parts are coming tomorrow.

Not sure what motherboard you gonna get but i just checked the Asus B450 Prime and it only has 128Mb. Says right on the manual.

@op, like i said, do not cheap out on the motherboard. Get at least the Asus Prime X470 Pro board. I recommend it.

 

[chrcoluk]

Mine is the asrock b450 pro 4.

Also even if its the smaller ROM size the issue is supporting 2 gens of chips vs 3 gens, for a 4XX board to support 3000 series chips it only needs to support 2 gens so even then the smaller rom is fine.

I see a ton of articles, and information from AMD stating support is until 2020 on ALL AM4 boards, and this one article stating that 3XX boards may have a rom limitation issue. Remember a b450 is not a 3XX board.

Personally I consider it no worries at all, x470 boards are just overpriced as their advantage seems minimal over a b450.

 

[Orange Nexus]

Mine is the asrock b450 pro 4.

Also even if its the smaller ROM size the issue is supporting 2 gens of chips vs 3 gens, for a 4XX board to support 3000 series chips it only needs to support 2 gens so even then the smaller rom is fine.

True dat. Switching from Ryzen 1 to Ryzen + only needed 128Mb. That Asrock should handle an 8-core.

 

[chrcoluk]

I suppose the issue if someone is planning to put in a top end 3000 chip in with potentially 16 cores.

But if that is the plan I wouldnt even get a x470 board but wait for x570.

 

[welshrat]

I have done the same with an Asus Prime Pro and a 2600 to tide me over until the 3000's release, I needed to do it now as I use the PC for work (visual studio, android studio, python, unix Vm's etc etc) so I didn't want to have to rebuild again and I had a small window to do it all with minimum impact. I am really really impressed with the 2600 to the point of feeling really relaxed now even if the Zen 2 chips are delayed. I know you can wait for the X570 but if you don't need PCIE4 I don't think you can go to far wrong with an X470.

Cheers Sam

 

[LePhuronn]

Seems to be a strong opinion should either be brought at launch or wait.

He was talking about 9900K now or laying the groundwork for a Ryzen 3000 with no context as to what other systems he has. It's hardly a "strong" opinion to say "if you're looking at a Ryzen 3000 then hang on for a bit to see what the new ecosystem brings". Christ, what's with all the black and white interpretations going on these days?

@mulpsmebeauty , since you've now said you want a 2nd system, have a look at 1440p and 4K benchmarks pairing a 2700X with the 2080 Ti. You may not even need to get a Ryzen 3000 when they land given the performance gap between the 2700X and 9900K is almost non-existent at those big resolutions. And unless you're thinking about a bazillion NVMe drives in RAID, any lane trickery coming with X570 probably won't be a requirement for you. So yes, look at something chunky like a Tomahawk or big X470 board as a basis for a ryzen 3000 maybe later on.

 

[Squink]

have a look at 1440p and 4K benchmarks pairing a 2700X with the 2080 Ti. You may not even need to get a Ryzen 3000 when they land given the performance gap between the 2700X and 9900K is almost non-existent at those big resolutions.

Sometimes there is little difference, but sometimes there is a really significant difference between a 2700X and a 9900K, even at 1440p. Sometimes the disparity isn't far off 40%. Check out Eurogamer's Far Cry Results and Gamersnexus. Sometimes the difference is so pronounced it's far greater than the difference between a 2080 and a 2080ti.

It leaves me thinking that current gen Ryzen would completely gimp a 2080ti, so it's imperative I have an upgrade path that doesn't involve the rigmarole of swapping CPU/RAM/Mobo and reinstalling Windows.

 

[LePhuronn]

In which case then I return to my original comment: wait for Ryzen 3000 to be released to see what its gaming performance is like and what X570 brings to the table. If you're concerned that a current Ryzen will gimp the 2080 Ti, is there any point in getting one now? You'll have 6 months of gimping.

But while I think about it, you may not get an upgrade path even with Ryzen 3000. AMD have said they're supporting AM4 until 2020, but in the joy of semantics does that mean Ryzen 3000 is the last on AM4 because Ryzen 4000 in 2020 moves past AM4, or is Ryzen 4000 going to be the last AM4 CPU? This could end you up in an Intel-like position whereby you need a new motherboard after only 1 CPU generation.

 

[Wommers]

But while I think about it, you may not get an upgrade path even with Ryzen 3000. AMD have said they're supporting AM4 until 2020, but in the joy of semantics does that mean Ryzen 3000 is the last on AM4 because Ryzen 4000 in 2020 moves past AM4, or is Ryzen 4000 going to be the last AM4 CPU? This could end you up in an Intel-like position whereby you need a new motherboard after only 1 CPU generation.

I can see the zen 2 refinement (i.e 7nm+) being the last on AM4. that should release in 2020 meaning 2021 will be AM5 for Zen 3