SAS could change selection test to make it easier for female recruits

adolf hamster said:
so the alternative would be what? let them find out in the field?

because that's where i get off and repeat myself- wut?
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The alternative to what?

a PT session is designed for physical training not diagnosing medical conditions, a PTI is not a medical professional. A PT session is also not designed to cause people to pass out, there is a risk they might but that isn't the intention.
 
adolf hamster said:
pushing recruits to their limits during training and if they have a problem that means they don't cut it you can send them home
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Recruits are already pushed rather hard during training and are on various training courses and exercises through their future career.
 
dowie said:
I think it is rather bizarre, as I've already stated and which you've presumably already read? Of course it is a bad idea - I'm not sure why that even needs to be asked? But more to the point it isn't something that happens.
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Apparently it's what happens. When we were re-fitting a med center on a base we saw a couple of young soldiers come in after feeling off and then be diagnosed with heart conditions that were not apparent before. It weeds out that kind of thing because if it happens in the field, it's a liability.

Safety is thing, but people do die in training. You have to remember these people are being trained to fight wars.
 
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Angilion said:
I think that would depend on the individual and on their culture.

An extreme example comes to mind - the siege of Tortega during the Reconquista. The city had been pretty much stripped of men who could fight, since they were fighting elsewhere. A general on the other side found out about that and unsurprisingly saw it as a perfect opportunity to capture the city. So he brought his army up, laid siege to the city and no doubt expected a quick surrender. Some of the women in the city decided they were not going to live under Islamic rule, got organised enough to have an accepted leader, gathered some like-minded women around the city, armed up with whatever weapons they could get and use...and sallied forth to attack the besieging army. Obviously they had no chance in a pitched battle, since they had no combat training or experience and were very heavily outnumbered, but they won total victory with the besieging army being routed. The reason was surprise and culture. The medieval Muslims in the besieging army did not fight women in battle. That was not a thing that happened and neither their culture nor their religion allowed it, so when the men near the sally port were suddenly faced with an attack by armed women obviously intent on fighting to the death they blanked. They had no orders for this, no framework at all for it other than it being wrong, very wrong. Fight? Not allowed. Die passively? Obviously not. So they ran away. The more disciplined soldiers retreated in good order, but they all left and the siege was broken.

The women were knighted by the local Duke when he returned with the army, which caused some dispute over the correct form of address. The language was strongly gendered and the correct form of address for a knight was masculine. Using that could be taken as implying these women were unwomanly, which would be an insult. Using anything else could be taken as implying that these people weren't really knights, which would be an insult. Correct forms of address were a very big deal in those days.
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Never knew that one, sounds amazing :D

Have you got any links to read? As google is not bringing anything up
 
Freakbro said:
Never knew that one, sounds amazing :D

Have you got any links to read? As google is not bringing anything up
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Hmm cant seem to find anything on the siege of Tortega, must be a spelling mistake in there perhaps. But even googling the description of said siege nothing is coming up.
 
Nasher said:
Apparently it's what happens. When we were re-fitting a med center on a base we saw a couple of young soldiers come in after feeling off and then be diagnosed with heart conditions that were not apparent before. It weeds out that kind of thing because if it happens in the field, it's a liability.
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this is silly - just because you saw someone get ill during training doesn't mean you are correct to infer that the purpose of that training was to see if people get ill...

likewise sometimes people get knee injuries etc.. but you'd also be wrong to conclude that the purpose of assault courses and CFTs etc.. was to see who gets a knee injury

Safety is thing, but people do die in training. You have to remember these people are being trained to fight wars.
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Really - the armed forces train to fight in wars??? Who knew?
 
I’m all for women passing the physical test to join the SAS, fair play to them because a lot of men fail.

One thing I’m not sure about though is the actual killing part, I think men in general would deal with taking a life better than women.

I remember a few years ago hearing an ex SAS soldier talking on the radio about his time in the SAS, he mentioned his first ever field mission was to sneak up behind an enemy and slit his throat and even to that day on the radio, that image has haunted him every night, now I know there are women out there who would be capable of doing that if told to but I feel the after effects would hit women harder and they may find it too emotional.
 
Clov!s said:
I’m all for women passing the physical test to join the SAS, fair play to them because a lot of men fail.

One thing I’m not sure about though is the actual killing part, I think men in general would deal with taking a life better than women.

I remember a few years ago hearing an ex SAS soldier talking on the radio about his time in the SAS, he mentioned his first ever field mission was to sneak up behind an enemy and slit his throat and even to that day on the radio, that image has haunted him every night, now I know there are women out there who would be capable of doing that if told to but I feel the after effects would hit women harder and they may find it too emotional.
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You didn't really read the thread did you?
 
Dis86 said:
You didn't really read the thread did you?
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Yes I’ve read all of it, what’s your point?

I was giving my opinion on women in the SAS.

I know the thread is about making it easier for women to get through rather than women being allowed to join full stop but I wanted to see some opinions on what I wrote.
 
Clov!s said:
I’m all for women passing the physical test to join the SAS, fair play to them because a lot of men fail.

One thing I’m not sure about though is the actual killing part, I think men in general would deal with taking a life better than women.

I remember a few years ago hearing an ex SAS soldier talking on the radio about his time in the SAS, he mentioned his first ever field mission was to sneak up behind an enemy and slit his throat and even to that day on the radio, that image has haunted him every night, now I know there are women out there who would be capable of doing that if told to but I feel the after effects would hit women harder and they may find it too emotional.
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considering the low number of women in the special forces slitting people's throats i think it might be a bit early to make a call as to wether or not the psychological effects are going to be any different to a man's reaction
 
adolf hamster said:
considering the low number of women in the special forces slitting people's throats i think it might be a bit early to make a call as to wether or not the psychological effects are going to be any different to a man's reaction
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I understand that but if women are going to be applying and passing, the question needs to be asked how they’ll deal with taking someone’s life because at some point, they are going to have to do it.

I’m sure mental health is taken into account when applying anyway isn’t it?
 
Clov!s said:
Yes I’ve read all of it, what’s your point?

I was giving my opinion on women in the SAS.

I know the thread is about making it easier for women to get through rather than women being allowed to join full stop but I wanted to see some opinions on what I wrote.
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You're saying you're all for women passing because men fail...yet they won't be passing the same goal posts so it's a meaningless comparison.
And why would men be better at killing someone than a woman? It's the physical attributes that largely distance the genders. A woman isn't exactly going to apply to join the SAS if she's got a problem with killing, is she?
 
Dis86 said:
You're saying you're all for women passing because men fail...yet they won't be passing the same goal posts so it's a meaningless comparison.
And why would men be better at killing someone than a woman? It's the physical attributes that largely distance the genders. A woman isn't exactly going to apply to join the SAS if she's got a problem with killing, is she?
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People join for the wrong reasons, it could be that they pass all the training but then haven’t got what it takes in the field to get the job done.
 
Clov!s said:
I remember a few years ago hearing an ex SAS soldier talking on the radio about his time in the SAS, he mentioned his first ever field mission was to sneak up behind an enemy and slit his throat and even to that day on the radio, that image has haunted him every night, now I know there are women out there who would be capable of doing that if told to but I feel the after effects would hit women harder and they may find it too emotional.
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sounds very dubious

[citation needed]

when did this creeping up and slitting someone's throat occur?

in reality, rather than in Hollywood films, it is unlikely to be a silent way of killing someone

edit - spelling
 
dowie said:
sounds very dubious

[citation needed]

when did this creeping up and slitting someone's throat occur?

in reality, rather than in hollowed films, it is unlikely to be a silent way of killing someone
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There was a radio special maybe 5 years ago now, they had an ex SAS soldier on and he gave quite a detailed talk on his time serving and did go into a lot of detail, I’ll have a look online and see if I can find the story.
 
Clov!s said:
I understand that but if women are going to be applying and passing, the question needs to be asked how they’ll deal with taking someone’s life because at some point, they are going to have to do it.

I’m sure mental health is taken into account when applying anyway isn’t it?
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you can ask the question, problem is without women in the special forces there won't be a fully reliable answer
 
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