Sauber Honda

andicole0

andicole0

andicole0

Soldato
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Deal done, 2 slow cars next year?
No difference then I suppose from the last 2 years.
Actually, let's hope that we get some more competitive teams. I am bored with Ferrari and Mercedes.
Andi.
 
I knew nothing about this until now. I assume this purely a cost thing? Honda engines being cheaper than Ferrari's, given that Sauber are having financial troubles.
 
Long term it will be a good move. Who knows what deal Ferrari put on the table for them for 2018. I'm sure this deal is best for them, otherwise they wouldn't do it.
 
They are in the process of rebuilding their team with new investors. It may sound crazy now but long term it'll be a good deal for them as they will get right up to date engines rather than year old technology from Ferrari.

Yes, Honda are struggling right now but having two teams running their engines (unless McLaren decide to move to Mercedes power) will give them much more development miles. Honda are also now using Ilmor, who helped develop and transform the Renault power unit after the issues with Red Bull. There is also talk of Mercedes providing Honda with consultancy advice to improve the electronics and hybrid systems although specifics about any deal are yet to be fully agreed.

This year with the revised design for Honda could be difficult but with their in-house development, Ilmor and possible Mercedes consultancy.....I'd say Honda will get this sorted!
 
Valo said:
They are in the process of rebuilding their team with new investors. It may sound crazy now but long term it'll be a good deal for them as they will get right up to date engines rather than year old technology from Ferrari.

Yes, Honda are struggling right now but having two teams running their engines (unless McLaren decide to move to Mercedes power) will give them much more development miles. Honda are also now using Ilmor, who helped develop and transform the Renault power unit after the issues with Red Bull. There is also talk of Mercedes providing Honda with consultancy advice to improve the electronics and hybrid systems although specifics about any deal are yet to be fully agreed.

This year with the revised design for Honda could be difficult but with their in-house development, Ilmor and possible Mercedes consultancy.....I'd say Honda will get this sorted!
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Yep its easy to say 'lolsauber' but its a good move for them in the longer run. Who knows whether they'll build a decent engine in 2018 but more data is long overdue.
 
I am sure McLaren thought it would be a good move in the long run but in the meantime it's just downright embarrassing and it's shocking to see what used to be a top team at the back of the grid and struggling to even finish a race. This years engine seems to be even worse than last year.
 
Ferrari are unlikely to sanction another deal using year old engines. The reason Sauber are running year old engines is Ferrari wanted a three year deal, something Sauber were unwilling to agree to. The Honda deal makes sense as they're likely cheaper than Ferrari and Honda may actually listen to them as a partner rather than simply as a third thought customer.
 
pastymuncher said:
I am sure McLaren thought it would be a good move in the long run but in the meantime it's just downright embarrassing and it's shocking to see what used to be a top team at the back of the grid and struggling to even finish a race. This years engine seems to be even worse than last year.
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It was and probably still is a good move for McLaren. Yes, it's embarrassing for a team with az rich f1 history as McLaren to have these reliability failures and power deficit to Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault but the logic behind the switch is sound....the likelihood of a customer team beating a works team is slim to non-existent and they had to do something to change those odds.

Honda completely redesigned the engine from last year to adopt the same layout as Mercedes and yes, right now it isn't as good as last years but this engine will allow for better development now they have dumped their "Size Zero" approach. Another thing to remember is Honda is still two years or so behind the rest of the field in creating and developing these hybrid engines.

MissChief said:
Ferrari are unlikely to sanction another deal using year old engines. The reason Sauber are running year old engines is Ferrari wanted a three year deal, something Sauber were unwilling to agree to. The Honda deal makes sense as they're likely cheaper than Ferrari and Honda may actually listen to them as a partner rather than simply as a third thought customer.
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It will be interesting to see how Sauber will be treated as I'm sure they are referred to as a Customer in the press release. McLaren have always been Honda's exclusive partner since their return, if McLaren keep Honda after this year I'm wondering if McLaren will adopt the status of Honda's Works Team and receive preferential treatment over Sauber e.g. first to receive and run upgrades etc.
 
I guess at worst it means McLaren will be able to at least move 2 more places up the grid... :D

In all seriousness imagine Sauber stick them in and out do McLaren. Until McLaren get a better engine we still don't know if the chassis/aero is any good. I believe It's being flattered by Alonso's skills when it actually works.
 
KiNgPiN83 said:
I guess at worst it means McLaren will be able to at least move 2 more places up the grid... :D

In all seriousness imagine Sauber stick them in and out do McLaren. Until McLaren get a better engine we still don't know if the chassis/aero is any good. I believe It's being flattered by Alonso's skills when it actually works.
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I think as in previous years McLaren have a strong aero package and chassis, they are just down on power.
 
Valo said:
It will be interesting to see how Sauber will be treated as I'm sure they are referred to as a Customer in the press release. McLaren have always been Honda's exclusive partner since their return, if McLaren keep Honda after this year I'm wondering if McLaren will adopt the status of Honda's Works Team and receive preferential treatment over Sauber e.g. first to receive and run upgrades etc.
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Hopefully they will get equal treatment, Honda need to test the latest parts.

Maybe Sauber will be getting the new parts first, just in case they make the engine unreliable.
 
Great move for Sauber - McLaren and Honda have done the dirty work for the past three years. Sauber will hopefully end up with a reasonably competitive power unit at low cost within two years. McLaren are the losers here - Honda should have pushed the Ron Denis exclusivity away right from the start. Now they might be competitive in the last year before the engines change again.
 
Valo said:
I think as in previous years McLaren have a strong aero package and chassis, they are just down on power.
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in 2014 (Button and Magnussen) McLaren had Mercedes power and were nowhere, the chassis was a dog. I'd agree this year that the car is fundamentally good though...
 
Marsman said:
I knew nothing about this until now. I assume this purely a cost thing? Honda engines being cheaper than Ferrari's, given that Sauber are having financial troubles.
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There were rumours about it happening just over a month ago, see below:

Shimmy said:
Apparently Sauber - Honda deal to be announced quite soon.

Makes sense all round really. Honda get more miles on their engine, McLaren don't need to worry about a rival team beating them with a Honda engine and Sauber get a cheap deal with potentially a leading engine. Certainly more potential than a 2016 Ferrari with zero updates.
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At the moment Sauber are paying a fortune for engines to be ... At the back of the grid anyway !!
Undoubtedly Honda will be offering their engines at a massive discount (if not free of charge) whilst they are struggling with them.

I'd have liked to see what Ilmor could've come up with re: last years Honda engine. Hopefully Ilmor will have both designs on the bench.
 
Outcast said:
At the moment Sauber are paying a fortune for engines to be ... At the back of the grid anyway !!
Undoubtedly Honda will be offering their engines at a massive discount (if not free of charge) whilst they are struggling with them.

I'd have liked to see what Ilmor could've come up with re: last years Honda engine. Hopefully Ilmor will have both designs on the bench.
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I don't think Ilmor will be doing anything with the 2016 version of the engine. Honda purposely changed the design this year to match Mercedes and Ferrari, Honda's original design was restricting development of certain components like the turbo.
 
Honda need to work with illmor, Sauber have to not make the mistake that mc larens are making feel mc larens are making very bad decisions right now.Honda will do well I feel with sauber. But only if they get help from Mario illein and illmor
 
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