SAVE RAF COTTESMORE

Does any one have any more news on Kinloss and Lossie?

I had an air power brief in my final ADTF lesson (only 2 weeks left for me!! :p)

The instructor said the slide was pretty up to date, with the GR4 and eventually JSF at Lossie and the Nimrod MRA4 at Kinloss and the second phase of Typhoons replacing the Tonkas at Leuchars.

I think that was before the latest defence review though, which put everything on its head.
 
Will getting rid of Kinloss actully save any money though? I don't know a great deal but I thought they are the only RAF base to have the Nimrod aircraft, so if they get rid of RAF Kinloss they will just end up moving all the Nimrod aircraft and personel elsewhere.

Mad_Jay's summary is pretty much the latest information.

Kinloss is a good location for the marine role of the Nimrod MR2 / MRA4 and also useful for excercises with Naval forces. It's other roles will keep it ticking over until the Nimrod MRA4 (finally) comes into service in 2012.
 
The Nimrod is long in the tooth, expect complete decommission soon, which is a worry because there is no direct replacement.

Actually, not the case.

The Nimrod MR2 will be replaced by the Nimrod MRA4 which is a re-engineered Nimrod that you could at a push argue is the same age.

The Nimrod R1 will be replaced by RC-135 Rivet Joint which will be re-engineered from surplus USAF KC-135s that you could at a push argue is older than the Nimrods its replacing!

:D
 
jesus plane geek alert.

They are cutting the costs someone has to take it on the chin, petitions like this are pathetic to be fair. Id liek to see costs cut much much further for 10 years. but im just joe public.
 
The Nimrod is long in the tooth, expect complete decommission soon, which is a worry because there is no direct replacement.

The new model of Nimrod aircraft are planned to be ready by 2012, which is why I wouldn't expect RAF Kinloss to be shut.
 
I grew up at RAF Wittering (amongst shed loads of other bases), and since they are moving the Harriers back there..... ah it brings a tear to my eye..
 
jesus plane geek alert.

They are cutting the costs someone has to take it on the chin, petitions like this are pathetic to be fair. Id liek to see costs cut much much further for 10 years. but im just joe public.

I think a few folk here work on them, and some take pics for them.

It is crap seeing bases close down, and the local communities do rely on them quite heavily. I know some local towns round here would lose a lot of money. Well the bars at least would :p
 
Couldn't give a monkeys that bases are being closed down, but can see the problem with local communities.

What the government should look to do is turn sites that aren't cost effective, into sites for other planned expenditure plans or encourage companies building new factories to choose such locations by offering the sites at a reduced cost. So if company Z was planning to build a new factory for something in the UK< giving them 30% off the land cost for the old airbase would maybe persaude them to build there and bring in a couple thousands jobs which would help the community stay much as it was.


But we simply don't need to be spending as much as we do on defence, because the likelyhood of another massive world war is slim, and if it happened. Well lets look at previous world wars, when it really comes down to it you can turn an entire countries industry into a war machine and what you'd do to survive at war when it really mattered has pretty much smeg all to do with what you've spent in previous years.

A world war isn't going to creep up on us in this day and age, we can increase spending as the situation deteriorates, we don't need to keep up spending inbetween. WE don't need a massive readyness level when theres very little risk of war.

We also shouldn't be in ruddy Afghanistan, because we're doing entirely smeg all by being there, except of course increasing the numbers of people who hate us and thereby worsening international relationships with muslim countrys, by killing muslim people, which will likely be the source of the next big international crisis.

To some people it might seem that we're at war, to justify maintained high spending on the defence budget, and really nothing else at all, which is disgusting. The more we spend on defence budgets, the more the board members of the companies being used to supply equipment for defence make.
 
But we simply don't need to be spending as much as we do on defence, because the likelyhood of another massive world war is slim, and if it happened. Well lets look at previous world wars, when it really comes down to it you can turn an entire countries industry into a war machine and what you'd do to survive at war when it really mattered has pretty much smeg all to do with what you've spent in previous years.

A world war isn't going to creep up on us in this day and age, we can increase spending as the situation deteriorates, we don't need to keep up spending inbetween. WE don't need a massive readyness level when theres very little risk of war.

You are correct in saying that the world we live in is very different to the 1900s and we aren't facing a large aggressor but the rest isn't really a true reflection.

Our spending on defense by GDP is meant to be 2.5%, this means we are number 70 in the world for defense spending. That's a tiny about when you consider two things...

1) We are one of only nine country with nuclear weapons. Those alone are going to cost between £75 billion and £135 billion.

2) We aren't really spending 2.5%. Usually when we go to war the cost of running the conflict is funding by the Treasury (the MoD doesn't have a line item in there yearly budget that says 'war') but both the operations in Iraq and Afghanistan are coming out of the MoD's budgets. The 2.5% figure factors this spending so Labour can claim they aren't spending less of defence.

It's common knowledge that we couldn't fight another Falklands conflict and we couldn't produce a fighting force to match the ones we committed to either Gulf War. Fighting a world war against a Russia that is rebuilding it's forces paid for by new found wealth in oil / gas or against a rapidly advancing China would be a non starter.

You say we could (as we did in previous World Wars) turn industry into a war making machine. The only trouble with that is most of 'our' industry is now abroad! Even if it was still here technology has moved along since those days, we can't just knock up a few thousand fighters as we did with the Spitfire. It takes decades to produce a new fighter. If we used the current Typhoon (assuming it isn't outdated by this point) it would still takes years to build up a force of them and who would fly them? Where would we put them?

Any aggressor who had designs on attacking us would see this attempt at building a war machine and attack first whilst we would be 'weak'.

To some people it might seem that we're at war, to justify maintained high spending on the defence budget, and really nothing else at all, which is disgusting. The more we spend on defence budgets, the more the board members of the companies being used to supply equipment for defence make.

For me we are at war. We have a significant number of people and assests deployed overseas for an extended period of time. Guns are being fires, bombs dropped and people killed. That pretty much says war to me, or at the very least a conflict.

I wouldn't say we are spending on nothing else, take a look at the figures...

Work and Pensions - £132,732 million
Health - £104,464 million
Education and Skills - £68,060 million
Defence - £38,986 million
 
I'm not sure why people think all RAF bases can take aircraft.

Stafford didn't, it was a major logistics base. Do they not, as part of the RAF, perform activities toward keeping aircraft in the air?

Yes they did, well until the MoD just outsources loads of stuff to close said bases. It has nothing to do with operational capabilites, just outsourcing stuff to control money better usually extending the payment periods for the next cabinet rather than the current one.

Next you will be saying Cranwell isnt needed as no aircraft are there...
 
When are we expecting to take deliveries of the F-35 to replace the harrier??

Expected to start deliveries in 2012 but there are still lots of issues to resolve both technical and financial. The 140 F-35B order cut be cut down to 70. It could also see the STOVL B variant swapped for the C variant. We might not see them at all if the defence review decides we can't have the carriers.

Even if they do start to be delivered in 2012 it will be years before they are effective force.
 
Is there an RAF base dedicated or mostly dedicated to ICT type stuff? Because someone mentioned on a different thread that the RAF is getting rid of most of their ICT roles (such as ICT specialist) in favour of getting civilian contractors. If so that could lead to certain ICT specialized bases being closed, or at least scaled down.
 
Is there an RAF base dedicated or mostly dedicated to ICT type stuff? Because someone mentioned on a different thread that the RAF is getting rid of most of their ICT roles (such as ICT specialist) in favour of getting civilian contractors. If so that could lead to certain ICT specialized bases being closed, or at least scaled down.

Why would a base that concentrates on radar, IT or comms have to shut if the military positions are replaced mostly by civilian contractors?
 
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