Caporegime
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Only some hospitals have one on site. I've worked in EDs where they wont turn away the simple stuff to OoH because it makes their turnover look better
Save the NHS!
- Thread starter scorza
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Only some hospitals have one on site. I've worked in EDs where they wont turn away the simple stuff to OoH because it makes their turnover look better
Only some hospitals have one on site. I've worked in EDs where they wont turn away the simple stuff to OoH because it makes their turnover look better
Fair comment
Soldato
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Oh I know, but usually they are old hospitals where they closed the A&E and converted to a minor injuries unit (often these run very, very well as they are not stamped with the A&E tag) or they are a subdiv within an A&E department, and the staff are between both, and called here and there with one triage centre supplying both, rather than completely separating the area.
Hospital where I work it's a separate entity but same building. We triage ones referred to us from111. We also get ones bounced from ae similar you what you're suggesting. Up north I worked in another hospital which was similar
But yes you're right the other versions do exist
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Soldato
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Step in the right direction then.
Still doesn't stop us needing more doctors and nurses across the entire service, and without magic or an education program that isn't going to happen under any ******** contract rejigging.
Still doesn't stop us needing more doctors and nurses across the entire service, and without magic or an education program that isn't going to happen under any ******** contract rejigging.
All of these services are available, but demand on services is increasing. The population is increasing in number, size and complexity. The health service has not expanded sufficiently to meet this demand. Blaming the staff and making them work longer and harder for less money is not the solution for funding the NHS.
You think there's a lack of available people? I think the problem is more a lack of resource to pay for those additional people.
When you have nurses being paid over £1000 per day can you not see where the problems arise? Far too much NHS work is carried out by contractors - this certainly isn't the fault of the Drs or nurses but symptomatic of absolutely **** poor management.
You mean locum and bank staff? Much of this is due to poor staff retention rates, sickness (stress is a big one here) and terrible work force planning. We're not just talking about planning next year, but occasionally next week!
Caporegime
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Locum staff are expensive but the solution is to try and keep substantive staff happy and motivated, train more doctors and nurses and reduce loss overseas. Everything the new contract is pushing for is the opposite direction to where we should be going. Who in their right mind would be thinking about going into medicine currently?
There'll also be a disaster if you cap locum pay currently, you'll have A&Es closing their doors because they'll have no staff. Paying for locums is not the problem it's the result of the problem, which is not having enough internal staff.
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Totally agree that they're a symptom. The problem however is chronic mismanagement. If three other staff can be hired for the cost of one locum the solution is evident. The trouble is how do we get to that damn solution without having a stop gap which will also be expensive whereby you continue to pay those locums and their three replacements.
Soldato
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Too many of the staff being hired were not trained here.
That's fine to plug gaps, but if you don't change your educational basis, then you don't fix the issue, so there are staffing shortages, they go to agencies to fill the gaps, and in times of trouble the agencies fleece them.
That's fine to plug gaps, but if you don't change your educational basis, then you don't fix the issue, so there are staffing shortages, they go to agencies to fill the gaps, and in times of trouble the agencies fleece them.
But if those people are available through agencies then they're available! Like I said their isn't a shortage, people are just taking advantage of the situation. You can earn fifty grand a year or a hundred doing exactly the same job, which will you do?
Soldato
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Yes often the agencies source from outside.
Source anything they can get.
plug holes with a great variance of staff.
They are not immediately 'available' as they are not trained here.
They also don't get a massive amount extra, as the agency is getting most of the mark up.
Source anything they can get.
plug holes with a great variance of staff.
They are not immediately 'available' as they are not trained here.
They also don't get a massive amount extra, as the agency is getting most of the mark up.
Yup so that's another added expense through using temporary staff.
The thing is you do need locums for a service to run, and I say this as someone who has spent an outrageous amount on locums in the last 4 years having had to pay for 5 full maternity leaves for doctors and 4 shorter paternity leaves for doctors. In one way I would have loved a cap on their fees, but I don't resent them and they don't have the job security, employment rights, holiday leave etc. Without locums the service would fall apart. The only way you would totally get rid of locums is by over staffing a service so that you simply don't need to replace people when ill, maternity etc and obviously that is not possible. The government want market forces in areas they feel it helps them and not in other areas and it doesn't work like that
It's a when, not an if about when the NHS is no longer remotely the service or funding arrangement i.e top up fees or semi insurance model that the UK population think it should be
Bring on the strikes from the juniors I say. The seniors have your back in most places
It's a when, not an if about when the NHS is no longer remotely the service or funding arrangement i.e top up fees or semi insurance model that the UK population think it should be
Bring on the strikes from the juniors I say. The seniors have your back in most places
Soldato
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Well done for attending the protest and thanks for supporting your colleagues. Sadly I wasn't able to attend as I was oncall but my ballot paper has arrived and I'll be supporting strike action. With Winter pressure soon on us it could be a tough day to strike but there's a lot of support for us amongst seniors and rightly so. In our department 9 of the 26 juniors (FY1 to SpR) are locums so I guess they will still be at work so things should still function pretty smoothly.