Save the NHS!

deuse said:
Then tell them to become a London tube drive who's on twice that much. I think it's about £55K+
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Is pretty much a closed shop isn't it? As an aside £34k puts you in the top 24% of earners in the UK in your first graduate job.
 
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Buddy said:
Where did the 34k figure come from?
It's 22k Base 1st year without any banding.
I was only earning that much 3rd or 4th year into training with banding.
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I was just replying to a post and said £34k was not a bad salary twas all, if the figure talked about was wrong then it's wrong. I have no opinion on anything else in this thread as I haven't read it.
 
He's single handedly destroyed the NHS. It amazes me how he thinks knows the NHS better than the 53000 Junior doctors who work in it. These are (supposedly) highly respected intelligent individuals with significant backing from the general public.
I fail to see how imposition is going to save the NHS money (which is what this boils down to) when months of industrial action will no doubt cost more. Yet another short sighted decision
 
as someone who has spent all last week in hospital (not me, my daughter), the NHS staff are absolutely over worked and under paid.

That said, I am confused over two things

In my mind, there is no difference between a saturday and a monday. If there is, it needs to be global (ie: Shop workers also included)

If they are tired, how does a pay increase solve it? I mean If I'm tired and my boss gave me an extra £5,000 a year.....I'm still tired

Then there is the real kicker. They knew what they were getting themselves in to.....now they are striking. When I applied for my job, it was £x,0000 salary. If I said to my boss, give me more money or I'll strike he will fire me lol
 
jimjamuk said:
Will see how many have the balls to vote with their feet and leave their jobs I guess. I'm guessing not many will
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Some will leave but the bigger impact will be on attracting the right calibre of people to become junior doctors in the future.

We're already seeing the same thing happening in teaching. Zero/below inflation pay rises and constant political meddling have created a teacher shortage.
 
If this contact is truly about a '7 Days NHS' then it would have started with the support staff. On numerous occasions when relatives have been in hospital they've been kept in for longer as the lab doesn't work weekends. Surely this is the first place to start, along with ensuring that those who can be discharged at the weekend have the necessary support services in place to go home instead of 'bed-blocking' by having to wait until during the week.
This whole contact fiasco is the Governments way of cutting costs via the back door seeing as the biggest expenditure is staff salaries.

Tunney said:
Some will leave but the bigger impact will be on attracting the right calibre of people to become junior doctors in the future.

We're already seeing the same thing happening in teaching. Zero/below inflation pay rises and constant political meddling have created a teacher shortage.
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This is exactly it. Would I want to be a Junior doctor now, definitely not, same with a Teacher. There's already a shortage of Junior doctors but who in their mind looking at what to do for a career post 18 will consider being a doctor now. This used to be one of the most prestigious occupations in the world, along with teachers. Now they're both being treated as punchbags for an out of touch government effectively trying to privatise the whole public sector via the back door
 
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marshalex said:
If this contact is truly about a '7 Days NHS' then it would have started with the support staff. On numerous occasions when relatives have been in hospital they've been kept in for longer as the lab doesn't work weekends. Surely this is the first place to start, along with ensuring that those who can be discharged at the weekend have the necessary support services in place to go home instead of 'bed-blocking' by having to wait until during the week.
This whole contact fiasco is the Governments way of cutting costs via the back door seeing as the biggest expenditure is staff salaries.
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Hear Hear.
 
marshalex said:
If this contact is truly about a '7 Days NHS' then it would have started with the support staff. On numerous occasions when relatives have been in hospital they've been kept in for longer as the lab doesn't work weekends. Surely this is the first place to start, along with ensuring that those who can be discharged at the weekend have the necessary support services in place to go home instead of 'bed-blocking' by having to wait until during the week.
This whole contact fiasco is the Governments way of cutting costs via the back door seeing as the biggest expenditure is staff salaries.



This is exactly it. Would I want to be a Junior doctor now, definitely not, same with a Teacher. There's already a shortage of Junior doctors but who in their mind looking at what to do for a career post 18 will consider being a doctor now. This used to be one of the most prestigious occupations in the world, along with teachers. Now they're both being treated as punchbags for an out of touch government effectively trying to privatise the whole public sector via the back door
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100%
 
glen8 said:
as someone who has spent all last week in hospital (not me, my daughter), the NHS staff are absolutely over worked and under paid.

That said, I am confused over two things

In my mind, there is no difference between a saturday and a monday. If there is, it needs to be global (ie: Shop workers also included)

If they are tired, how does a pay increase solve it? I mean If I'm tired and my boss gave me an extra £5,000 a year.....I'm still tired

Then there is the real kicker. They knew what they were getting themselves in to.....now they are striking. When I applied for my job, it was £x,0000 salary. If I said to my boss, give me more money or I'll strike he will fire me lol
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Monkey Puzzle and ritcH had some good anwsers to your questions.


Monkey Puzzle said:
Junior doctors generally work 48 hours a week on average. As it stands Monday-Friday 7am-7pm is considered normal hours, and depending upon the proportion of hours of the 48 that are antisocial dictates the 'banding', which is the % supplement that is added to the basic wage. This is generally 40% or 50%, so a 1st year doctor will generally be on around 33-34k ish.

The reality is that often jobs will be short staffed such that juniors regularly work an hour or two or three each day, and that's one of the major concerns, that spreading an already understaffed workforce over more weekend shifts and the removal of safeguards to financially penalise hospitals that purposefully understaff will result in greater hours worked by junior doctors and more unsafe patient-care.
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ritcH said:
The contract is only partly about pay, there are all sorts of proposals, such as the definition of antisocial hours, whether pay progression is about experience or level of training, which has ramifications for women with children working part time and doctors taking time out to pursue research, changing the safe guards which protect doctors from being over worked and therefore preventing patients being cared for by overly tired doctors. I'm sure there are many more, but I find it too boring to look into. Besides that most doctors have no real information about what is being negotiated or what offers exist as this is all done behind closed doors between the BMA, NHS Employers and Department for Health. We just read the headlines like everyone else.

I'm about half way through my speciality training and my current contract is due to end in Feb 2017. If this goes through, I'll personally take up locum jobs until such a time that a real contract is back on the table. I personally don't mind if I spend the rest of my life only having reached a certain grade on paper as ultimately it's about your experience and dedication and that has nothing to do with a contract. I suspect many doctors will do the same and many more will just leave the profession or the country. The next few years won't be boring anyway, the conservatives have made sure of that!
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