Save the NHS!

Then surely they should be advocating an insurance based system like the ones they wish to work for overseas? If the conditions are so great in Aus/NZ/US then why wouldn't doctors advocate the same financial model be applied in the UK?

Seeing as my daughter just came out of an excellently run NHS hospital I can't help but suggest people like you should move to somewhere where private healthcare is the norm. We (as in much of Britain) love the NHS.
 
Because more money in the system = more resources = less stretched medical staff

If it's privatised healthcare then that extra money rarely ends up in the system, it keeps insurance companies and private hospitals in a position where they can pay nice dividends out to shareholders.

The junior doctors want to keep the NHS we have at the moment, but if that disappears then why would you expect them to stick around in a system like other countries have for a fraction of the salary? They aren't thick.
 
If it's privatised healthcare then that extra money rarely ends up in the system, it keeps insurance companies and private hospitals in a position where they can pay nice dividends out to shareholders.

But these privatised healthcare systems are exactly the ones which doctors claim are better paid and offer improved work-life balance...
 
When I say it might be when solicitors, to flesh that out... you do your degree + LPC + two years on the job training - which is the training contract period all solicitors have to do... barristers do a one year pupilage - and are then a solicitor (and obviously by then are earning more than at the start of that TC). Or degree + GDL + LPC + two year TC, for the ~50% of people who go down that route. So the equivalent with medics would be after there first two years, when they go into specialised training (I think that's right... I should know for sure because my brother's girlfriend is a doc, but obviously I'm a bad person!)

The academic record that you need to become a solicitor is way below that of a doctor though. If we want smart people to become doctors, we need to pay accordingly. No-one wants to put their life in the hands of a C-grade student!
 
Seeing as my daughter just came out of an excellently run NHS hospital I can't help but suggest people like you should move to somewhere where private healthcare is the norm. We (as in much of Britain) love the NHS.

Unfortunately only 60% of the British public are satisfied with the NHS http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35527318

If this was a business with this level of customer satisfaction, it would be on Watchdog or out of business completely. Fortunately for you, people don't have any other choice so have to keep using the NHS and on it goes. Just because it's been around for a long time, doesn't mean it's loved.
 
Have you looked at the reasons why people said they were dissatisfied? You have to scroll down a tiny bit but it's quite interesting. Seems to point towards it being underfunded and running with too few staff.

I'm not sure why the options to pick "government doesn't spent enough" and "NHS wastes money" were even options for people to pick on a survey that presumably is supposed to gather opinion on people's personal experiences.
 
Private work is only common in a few specialities (radiology/anaesthetics/surgery).

Aside from GPs, what doctors aren't involved in one of those three you listed? I have no idea, but it seems like that would cover a fairly large chunk of what doctors do?

I'm not sure why the options to pick "government doesn't spent enough" and "NHS wastes money" were even options for people to pick on a survey that presumably is supposed to gather opinion on people's personal experiences.

Because people think that writing surveys is easy, and anyone can do it. So you end up with really bad surveys that lead to dodgy conclusions. Happens all the time :p
 
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Because more money in the system = more resources = less stretched medical staff
as a baseline, uk spends 8.8% of GDP on healthcare (20% private, 80% government)
australia spends about the same amount as a %age of GDP for healthcare (the split is 33% private to 67% government
new zealand spends 9.5% (also about the same as uk's 20% private, 80% government)

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Aside from GPs, what doctors aren't involved in one of those three you listed? I have no idea, but it seems like that would cover a fairly large chunk of what doctors do?

no lol, each doctor will specialise in a field, and that field can be very narrow.

radiology is specifically looking at/performing scans. these can then be subspecialised into ultrasound, xray, mri, ct, interventional

same with surgery, a neurosurgeon could operate on either brains or spinal cord, you have virtually a specialist surgeon for every part of the body

then anaesthetics can be further subdivided into "just" anaesthesia (ie the doctors who put you to sleep), you have your acute pain team, and the anaesthetic intensive care docs, etc

then you have your general medical doctors, who again subspecialise eg respiratory, gastro - which can then be subspecialised to liver, bowel, cardio - you have your valve experts and the electrophysiologists, elderly care specialists, acute general medicine etc...

and not least A+E, obs/gynae, paeds, orthopaedic etc

not all specialities have the same potential for private work
 
It was either the thread about public workers being lazy or this very thread but there were people that have worked within the NHS on an administrative level who have witnessed massive wastes of money. Or seen for themselves lazy under performing middle managers.

Procurement was also mentioned to vary across hospitals with prices all over the place.

Last but not least failed IT systems costing millions. I would much rather we tackle these areas for cost savings so we can train/recruit more doctors and nurses to work in our hospitals.
 
That's true of any massive organisation though, it's not limited to the public sector.

Any improvement in those sorts of inefficiencies and especially things such as management of IT projects cannot happen by simply cutting budgets and hoping that you have truly exceptional staff just waiting for the opportunity to step up to the challenge - it requires putting those people in place before you can think about saving money. That initial investment is unlikely to ever happen.
 
That's true of any massive organisation though, it's not limited to the public sector.

Any improvement in those sorts of inefficiencies and especially things such as management of IT projects cannot happen by simply cutting budgets and hoping that you have truly exceptional staff just waiting for the opportunity to step up to the challenge - it requires putting those people in place before you can think about saving money. That initial investment is unlikely to ever happen.

We (Cornwall Council) just massively proved this. Outsourced IT to BT, who said they could save money /and/ create jobs, and were awarded a 10 year contract.

Two years in CC removed BT from the contract via the courts, having made massive losses (millions), lost somewhere between 30-50% of their staff, and now being unable to provide the levels of service that existed before outsourcing.

Vast disruption caused to most departments, and absolutely nothing to show for it. But it was done because of the perception that our internal IT was inefficient and we were wasting money.

Turns out it wasn't as true as they thought. BT made us look good ;)

(You'd be amazed how inept BT were though. Amazed.)
 
We (Cornwall Council) just massively proved this. Outsourced IT to BT, who said they could save money /and/ create jobs, and were awarded a 10 year contract.

Two years in CC removed BT from the contract via the courts, having made massive losses (millions), lost somewhere between 30-50% of their staff, and now being unable to provide the levels of service that existed before outsourcing.

Vast disruption caused to most departments, and absolutely nothing to show for it. But it was done because of the perception that our internal IT was inefficient and we were wasting money.

Turns out it wasn't as true as they thought. BT made us look good ;)

(You'd be amazed how inept BT were though. Amazed.)

I'm not surprised, I hear horror stories from school staff in Edinburgh city council at the price BT charge for IT support. Quite disgusting actually, I might look up the Edinburgh evening news on their pricing for unboxing computers and resetting passwords.

Found it :)

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.c...from-scandalous-council-it-contract-1-1274523
 
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