screw intel

[Final8y]

At the end of the day, if all Intel chips overclocked to as fast, or faster than their most expensive models, then they would lose lots of money from people buying cheap and OC'ing the hell out of the chips. It's a bit like how AMD have suffered in recent years by offering chip OC'able chips at the expense of losing sales of the high end ones, basically getting by in recent years by money ironically granted to them by Intel (Yey for Anti-Trust suits eh AMD?)!

AMD may be more popular with the "enthusiast" (Read: cheap-ass) community by allowing CPU core unlocks, and cheaper OC'able chips, but in the long run, it hasn't helped their bottom line. Also, frankly, I was more than happy spending £180 for my i5 2500k and getting it to 4.4Ghz, not exactly top dollar for some frankly incredible performance.

Enthusiast don't directly do anything for AMD or Intel's bottom line anyway locked or unlocked.
The majority don't unlock or over clock so the loss of the few Enthusiast who buy cheap & unlock changes nothing & they gain more from Enthusiasts recommendation to the less savvied & filling the forums with talk of a brand than making the Enthusiasts pay more for the chips.

Intel being in the lead will try & get away with both making the Enthusiasts pay through the nose & keep the recommendation talk going because they have the performance crown ATM.

AMD can not make Enthusiasts happy & talk about recommending AMD on the net If they try the pay through the nose path.

When AMD was in the lead & the FX chips were out AMD was not far of from what Intel is doing now.

 

[Stop It Rawr]

Loads of tech sites like Anandtech have actually lamented that the overclocking of low end parts has been restricted.

In fact I know a few people who actually could have bought a Core i5 2500k based rig and have been put off by Sandy Bridge TBH.

A lot of them are waiting to see what AMD can bring to the table.

Also the Sandy Bridge clocks are not insane consider that 45NM Core i5 and Core i7 quad cores could hit 3.8GHZ to 4.4GHZ.

The new CPUs can hit around 4.7GHZ to 4.9GHZ at most if you have a good chip and in many cases less since the chips are more sensitive to voltage.

4.9Ghz at most eh? You clearly don't know what you're talking about.

http://hwbot.org/forum/showthread.php?t=15952 <--2nd post, 5.4Ghz, it gets better from there. Yeah, such a modest overclock these Sandy Bridge chips have the capability of doing.

Also, remember that because this is a new architecture, Motherboard makers will be scrabbling to release new BIOS/UEFIs to improve overclocking capabilities as their understanding of the platform improves, so frankly, we haven't seen anything yet.

These are actually a small but vocal percentage of the DIY PC building community. In the last 11 years I have met only a few DIY PC builders who will spend £200 to £300 on their CPU for example.

OTH,forums tend to concentrate like minded people so they are not necessarily an indication of how most DIY PC builders will think.

There are other tech forums which are not even like OcUK for example. OcUK seems to attract DIY PC builders with bigger budgets who upgrade more often.

BTW,you are coming across as very elitist with all your "proper" nonsense and seem to have forgotten how the modding community started in the first place.

Yes, and the community dedicated to "enthusiast" overclocking on a budget is even less significant to Intel as at least the high end guys are more vocal and more importantly, generate good buzz for them. Frankly, I don't see where the problem lies here. In the last generation of chips, the 2 popular chips with the enthusiast community were the i7 920 and i5 750, pretty much directly comparable (Once you factor in the frankly silly X58 pricing initially especially for the i7 platform) upon release to the i7 2600k and i5 2500k and frankly, the Sandy bridge chips are far more capable overclockers.

Anyway, I'd challenge your elitism accusation by saying that you and especially the OP are pretty guilty of inverse snobbery, basically complaining that Intel no longer support a group of people who want to have their cake and eat it too.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

4.9Ghz at most eh? You clearly don't know what you're talking about.

http://hwbot.org/forum/showthread.php?t=15952 <--2nd post, 5.4Ghz, it gets better from there. Yeah, such a modest overclock these Sandy Bridge chips have the capability of doing.

Also, remember that because this is a new architecture, Motherboard makers will be scrabbling to release new BIOS/UEFIs to improve overclocking capabilities as their understanding of the platform improves, so frankly, we haven't seen anything yet.

At 1.656V!! The 32NM process has been out for over a year and is pretty mature. The Core i3 and six core Core i7 processors are all 32NM processors.

The overclocks I am talking about are 24/7 clocks not suicide runs.

You are the one who actually is clueless but not me.

According to Gibbo in consultation with Intel the maximum safe voltage is 1.38V:

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18227651

Obviously Intel knows less about their chips than you.

Yes, and the community dedicated to "enthusiast" overclocking on a budget is even less significant to Intel as at least the high end guys are more vocal and more importantly, generate good buzz for them. Frankly, I don't see where the problem lies here. In the last generation of chips, the 2 popular chips with the enthusiast community were the i7 920 and i5 750, pretty much directly comparable (Once you factor in the frankly silly X58 pricing initially especially for the i7 platform) upon release to the i7 2600k and i5 2500k and frankly, the Sandy bridge chips are far more capable overclockers.

Anyway, I'd challenge your elitism accusation by saying that you and especially the OP are pretty guilty of inverse snobbery, basically complaining that Intel no longer support a group of people who want to have their cake and eat it too.

Because most people will never ever even meet one in real life. Most DIY PC builders do not inhabit forums. Most DIY PC builders tend to be cost sensitive not e-peen sensitive.

You are the snob since you are accusing people of not being enthusiasts if they don't spend loads of money.

What about people who case mod then?? Not enthusiasts since they don't spend loads of money with Silverstone or Coolermaster for example.

Look at how CPU modding started. It was nothing to do with high end CPUs in the first place.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

BTW,70% of the Intel CPU market in Q4 2010 is still made up of Core2 and Atom processors:

http://www.fudzilla.com/processors/...ll-makes-up-65-percent-of-intels-market-today

 

[Stop It Rawr]

At 1.656V!!

The overclocks I am talking about are 24/7 clocks not suicide runs.

You are the one who actually is clueless but not me.

According to Gibbo in consultation with Intel the maximum safe voltage is 1.38V:

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18227651

Obviously Intel knows less about their chips than you.




Because most people will never ever even meet one in real life. Most DIY PC builders do not inhabit forums. Most DIY PC builders tend to be cost sensitive not e-peen sensitive.

You are the snob since you are accusing people of not being enthusiasts if they don't spend loads of money.

What about people who case mod then?? Not enthusiasts since they don't spend loads of money with Silverstone or Coolermaster for example.

Look at how CPU modding started. It was nothing to do with high end CPUs in the first place.

So you read the first post only and ignore the other reports on people reaching 5Ghz+ on around 1.4v, which frankly, is not much higher than the last architecture needed for decent clocks itself! If you believe an Intel rep talking to a retailer regarding "safe" voltages blindly then I do not know what to tell you. Of course they are going to be playing it safe as frankly, encouraging people other than those who know what they are doing to go hell for leather is asking for trouble. Those who DO know how what they are doing will frankly, not need such advice.

As for case modding, I have seen some frankly insane case mods by some really clever people, and they aren't cheap to do. People case mod for individuality, not to save money. Frankly, do you think having workshop grade equipment like Dremels, Jigsaws etc and the bits needed to mod a case is cheaper than just buying a higher end one, really?

 

[KiiYzOo]

Why is it that if the entusiast market is so small that intel still make k and x series processors if OEM's are going make it so people are completely unable to overclock them?
and also, what is the point in spending a huge amount of money on a cpu if your say, a gamer and you want better performance in games the gpu is the most important thing for framerates in games, the thing is that your better getting a cheaper quad core cpu and spending more money on a better graphics card than getting a 980x and having a much cheaper gpu.

 

[Final8y]

Why is it that if the entusiast market is so small that intel still make k and x series processors if OEM's are going make it so people are completely unable to overclock them?
and also, what is the point in spending a huge amount of money on a cpu if your say, a gamer and you want better performance in games the gpu is the most important thing for framerates in games, the thing is that your better getting a cheaper quad core cpu and spending more money on a better graphics card than getting a 980x and having a much cheaper gpu.

Because more money is more money for product that costs the same to make & companies will find ways to give reasons to charges more for people who are willing to pay more.

Money for old rope.

 

[Stop It Rawr]

Why is it that if the entusiast market is so small that intel still make k and x series processors if OEM's are going make it so people are completely unable to overclock them?
and also, what is the point in spending a huge amount of money on a cpu if your say, a gamer and you want better performance in games the gpu is the most important thing for framerates in games, the thing is that your better getting a cheaper quad core cpu and spending more money on a better graphics card than getting a 980x and having a much cheaper gpu.

Also, if CAT-THE-FIFTH is correct (Who also seems to confuse turnover with bottom line profits) how come the k series processors are in severely short supply in the UK and Europe with even the mighty Intel unable to cope with demand? Hardly evidence of a lack of interest there, then.

Also, there are plenty of games that respond to a CPU upgrade. I went from a Q9400 clocked in at 3.6Ghz (So it was PDQ), yet so far games like ArmA2, GTA 4 + EFLC, BLUR, F1 2010, Dawn Of War 2 (I have 300ish PC games with 200 on Steam alone, so haven't got round to testing them all yet!) have all responded massively to the change in CPU, and most have transferred the bottleneck in my system back to my Radeon HD5870.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

So you read the first post only and ignore the other reports on people reaching 5Ghz+ on around 1.4v, which frankly, is not much higher than the last architecture needed for decent clocks itself! If you believe an Intel rep talking to a retailer regarding "safe" voltages blindly then I do not know what to tell you. Of course they are going to be playing it safe as frankly, encouraging people other than those who know what they are doing to go hell for leather is asking for trouble. Those who DO know how what they are doing will frankly, not need such advice.

Most of the people in that thread were getting 5GHZ at 1.5V and above actually.

I person had a chip which did 5GHZ at 1.43V and two between 1.45V and 1.5V.

Great for short benching spells but not very long sustained use.

Also the 32NM process has been out for over a year with the Core i3 and six core Core i7 processors so it is very mature.

Even with the older 32NM chips 1.45V to 1.5V could cause damage and it is the same with the new 32NM chips too.

As for case modding, I have seen some frankly insane case mods by some really clever people, and they aren't cheap to do. People case mod for individuality, not to save money. Frankly, do you think having workshop grade equipment like Dremels, Jigsaws etc and the bits needed to mod a case is cheaper than just buying a higher end one, really?

I have also seen great case mods using cheap cases or materials and not using very expensive tools too.

 

[VoG]

how come the k series processors are in severely short supply in the UK and Europe with even the mighty Intel unable to cope with demand? Hardly evidence of a lack of interest there, then.

not really, we don't know the ratio of K chips produced to non K chips, how many K chips have been allocated to the EU market as a whole, how long Intel have been stockpiling chips prior to launch, what the current K/non K ratio & rate of production is etc.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

not really, we don't know the ratio of K chips produced to non K chips, how many K chips have been allocated to the EU market as a whole, how long Intel have been stockpiling chips prior to launch, what the current K/non K ratio & rate of production is etc.

Supposedly I am troll and have an agenda of some sorts so be careful will this chap.

 

[buttkinz]

I have 300ish PC games with 200 on Steam alone, so haven't got round to testing them all yet!) snip.

this made me laugh

 

[Nano2k]

When I remember that I once paid 300£ for a Pentium 200 or 500£ for a P2-400, 250£ does not sound like a lot to me considering the price/performance ratio. What's the £/Mhz ratio today? 10 times better than it was 10-15 years ago?

 

[JonJ678]

Every time I see "maximum safe voltage" I wince. Cat isn't a troll, he just has a fairly simple view of the world.

Intel's last move does make some sense. If you want the best onboard gpu available from them, you have to buy a K chip. If you want the best overclocking, you need to buy a K chip. If you really must do both of these at once, you're in the minority and shall have to wait for the Z68 chipset.

Intel have been charging close to a grand for multiplier unlocked chips for years, while AMD's black editions are far cheaper. Charging a premium for chips which overclock better is hardly a new plan.

If you don't want to buy their hardware, then don't. Simple as that.

 

[zoomee]

I miss the gud ol days where a new CPU meant loads more performance. Nowadays it seems people are so easily duped into thinking they're going to get loads more by updating they're whole systems (i.e. m/board/cpu/ram etc) - looks like intel's marketing hype is working I guess.

Even when its obvious that for the likes of gaming - GPU is always king, it seems most gamers are just blind to the obvious!.

Nothing in the CPU arena seems to have me interested anymore - Software is still miles behind and needs to catch up tbh.

Anyways - INTEL = ALWAYS EVIL in my eyes , thats my world politics and monopolistic practise hatred coming through :>

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Every time I see "maximum safe voltage" I wince. Cat isn't a troll, he just has a fairly simple view of the world.

I tend to believe in long-term stability more than anything as I am not a frequent upgrader TBH. My current system is based on a 975X motherboard and a Q6600.

The same goes with overclocking as I prefer more modest overclocks on a lower voltage as I tend to use SFF PCs where heat is more of an issue.

I get that changing around sockets and locking down overclocking is better for the profits Intel will generate but why should I care?? In the end it does not benefit me at all if it costs me a lot more money.

In fact with most things we buy,a lot of people tend to concentrate on value for money. Of course value for money can be perceived in many ways!

You could argue that if we pay a bit more for things like food and clothing many poorer people worldwide would benefit(if they got paid more as a result). OTH, cheaper retailers seem to be doing quite well in these areas due to the recession.

Anyway,no point getting into an argument with people(not my intention as any subject can have multiple viewpoints)!

 

[zoomee]

Is it just me or have I still yet to see some decent prime95 runs on these super clocked SB CPU's? overclocking is pointless without stability....

 

[Stop It Rawr]

this made me laugh

The cost of amassing such a collection certainly didn't make me laugh.

Look, CAT-THE-FIFTH, I do not want to get into an argument with you, and frankly, enjoy playing devil's advocate, but when people start twisting my words and running off to try other threads to slander my views, I will react. I am opinionated, sure, but once my view is stated, that's it, I do not personalise my arguments. I do not hold grudges and hope that you will not so the same.

Could we please move from from this petty dispute and agree that we just have opposing views?

Is it just me or have I still yet to see some decent prime95 runs on these super clocked SB CPU's? overclocking is pointless without stability....

Good point, while my CPU is nice and stable on OCCT and IBT, I have yet to go into Prime as yet. I will be updating the sticky with my Prime Blend testing results after some overnight testing.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The cost of amassing such a collection certainly didn't make me laugh.

Look, CAT-THE-FIFTH, I do not want to get into an argument with you, and frankly, enjoy playing devil's advocate, but when people start twisting my words and running off to try other threads to slander my views, I will react. I am opinionated, sure, but once my view is stated, that's it, I do not personalise my arguments. I do not hold grudges and hope that you will not so the same.

Could we please move from from this petty dispute and agree that we just have opposing views?

Good point, while my CPU is nice and stable on OCCT and IBT, I have yet to go into Prime as yet. I will be updating the sticky with my Prime Blend testing results after some overnight testing.

Yep. No point in holding grudges TBH!

 

[zoomee]

moving on then :>

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?p=4700771#post4700771

Some users showing problems getting uber clocks when using prime - and a handy tip about which version of linx to use for the SB's

someone show me a 24hr prime 95 run @5Ghz then i'll believe teh hype :>