Second Car questions
- Thread starter Conanius
- Start date
1mpg less? Are you sure that isnt a lighter driving style as LPG has a significantly lower CV to that of gasoline
I am still tempted to do it though, especially if gas can be bought for 67p.
lighter driving style? haha no way
if you get a good install, and it is mapped correctly then the mpg will be negligible.
I had a 3.0 Audi cab converted also with the same system... same story.
Soldato
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A Fabia or Ibiza pd130 was on my shortlist of cars when i got my Yaris but they were hard to find and the few about were already pretty ruined, this was over 2 years ago now so i doubt time will have made it easier to find one.
They all seem either ruined, 300 miles away, or 'scene taxed' to an extreme that is mental 'Always washed with a 28 bucket method, full service history buying even my air fresheners from the main dealer' and as such about 5 times market value.
Right.
I recently sold my 4.6 V8 Range Rover that was fitted with a multi-point injection LPG kit. I loved it. LPG around here is around half the cost of petrol, not quite, but close at approx 65p per gallon. My fuel economy went from around 18 mpg on petrol down to 13.5 mpg on LPG. This was calculated on fuelly, full tanks etc... over around 5k. My average cost per mile was 23.4p. Don't look at the fuel cost compared to the petrol though, it's the diesel you compare it to, as generally if you don't have the V8, you would be plumping for the diesel if you have any sense. Then the fuel cost is pretty much half, meaning I was equivalent of 27 mpg, which is probably a little better than a diesel Range Rover, but with all the benefits of a V8.
If you'e looking at a circa £600 PCM fuel bill, and roughly half it for LPG, that's £300 per month towards the conversion, and you will get your money back in 7 months (say 8 or 9 as it's not quite half the petrol cost due to slightly worse fuel economy, and slightly less than double the price for petrol).
Along with not having to pay out for a new car initially, second road fund license, insurance and any MOT repairs or whatever on a second, cheap car.
Of course, you may actually just want a second, more economical car also. Which is what I wanted. Hence why up until I sold my Range Rover, I had 3 cars. My "good" car (BMW 530d), my winter car (RR) and my economical car, which was a 2003 B5.5 Passat 1.9 TDI.
Now, I paid around £1k for the Passat. It was poverty spec, 5 speed, but with the 130 BHP engine, albeit with 140k on it. Chocolate cams are more the problems of the 150 BHP or the 2.5 V6 diesels of the same era. I personally wouldn't touch them engines, as they are not particularly fast, economical or reliable, and if the cams do go, you are looking at a massive repair bill.
Now, my Passat averages around 47 mpg or 13.4p per mile. This is "almost" half again of the cost to run the RR on LPG, so represents around a 2/3 - 3/4 saving on your current calculated fuel bill. And would therefore pay itself back in around half the time of the LPG conversion. Say 4-5 months. Not including insurance, tax etc...
I personally don't get everyones fear of diesels on this site. I have run MANY diesels, from brand new, to very old, with no miles on it, to having been to the moon and back (I once had a 309 with well over 200k on it), and I have NEVER had a problem that was related directly to the fuel.
To me, diesel just represents the cheapest motoring costs. I really do have to bite my tongue at all the posts on here saying "don't get a diesel, not worth it, get a 330ci instead, no turbo or dpf to worry about". Whether you do 6k per year or 50k per year, your almost always more economical in a diesel (obviously more so with higher miles per year, less so if your comparing a 1.0L banger to a 335d or similar).
I have never had a problem with a turbo or a dpf. And you get turbo'd petrols too, so it's not like it's just a diesel cost. Then there is the higher purchase price of the diesel, which you get most of it back as the selling price is higher on the other end. The only time this is not relevant is when you run said car into the ground, in which case, your almost certain to get better value from the diesel.
Anyway, 2 options there. If you must get a second car, I would happily recommend a Passat Estate 1.9 TDI. Cheap to buy, relatively cheap to maintain, economical, and a cheeky remap will make the world of difference to it, and "might" give better economy as well as performance. And ISOFIX bars can be retrofitted at a little over £40 per side.
Then there is the LPG route. It's also a good one, so long as you have enough retailers locally. I had one on each end of the commute, within 5 miles of each end, and one in the middle, but always held off for the cheapest one (closest to work), as if I ran out of LPG, I still always had 1/4 - 1/2 tank of petrol anyway.
BTW, my commute is just over 120 miles a day, so pretty close to your situation. With around 30 miles A-Road, 80 miles dual carriageway and 15 miles town driving. And have done it in all the vehicles I have mentioned.
So, TLDR:
LPG the V8 and pay it off in 8 months
Buy a Passat TDI Estate, pay it off in 5 months
Both great options, and well worth doing.
I recently sold my 4.6 V8 Range Rover that was fitted with a multi-point injection LPG kit. I loved it. LPG around here is around half the cost of petrol, not quite, but close at approx 65p per gallon. My fuel economy went from around 18 mpg on petrol down to 13.5 mpg on LPG. This was calculated on fuelly, full tanks etc... over around 5k. My average cost per mile was 23.4p. Don't look at the fuel cost compared to the petrol though, it's the diesel you compare it to, as generally if you don't have the V8, you would be plumping for the diesel if you have any sense. Then the fuel cost is pretty much half, meaning I was equivalent of 27 mpg, which is probably a little better than a diesel Range Rover, but with all the benefits of a V8.
If you'e looking at a circa £600 PCM fuel bill, and roughly half it for LPG, that's £300 per month towards the conversion, and you will get your money back in 7 months (say 8 or 9 as it's not quite half the petrol cost due to slightly worse fuel economy, and slightly less than double the price for petrol).
Along with not having to pay out for a new car initially, second road fund license, insurance and any MOT repairs or whatever on a second, cheap car.
Of course, you may actually just want a second, more economical car also. Which is what I wanted. Hence why up until I sold my Range Rover, I had 3 cars. My "good" car (BMW 530d), my winter car (RR) and my economical car, which was a 2003 B5.5 Passat 1.9 TDI.
Now, I paid around £1k for the Passat. It was poverty spec, 5 speed, but with the 130 BHP engine, albeit with 140k on it. Chocolate cams are more the problems of the 150 BHP or the 2.5 V6 diesels of the same era. I personally wouldn't touch them engines, as they are not particularly fast, economical or reliable, and if the cams do go, you are looking at a massive repair bill.
Now, my Passat averages around 47 mpg or 13.4p per mile. This is "almost" half again of the cost to run the RR on LPG, so represents around a 2/3 - 3/4 saving on your current calculated fuel bill. And would therefore pay itself back in around half the time of the LPG conversion. Say 4-5 months. Not including insurance, tax etc...
I personally don't get everyones fear of diesels on this site. I have run MANY diesels, from brand new, to very old, with no miles on it, to having been to the moon and back (I once had a 309 with well over 200k on it), and I have NEVER had a problem that was related directly to the fuel.
To me, diesel just represents the cheapest motoring costs. I really do have to bite my tongue at all the posts on here saying "don't get a diesel, not worth it, get a 330ci instead, no turbo or dpf to worry about". Whether you do 6k per year or 50k per year, your almost always more economical in a diesel (obviously more so with higher miles per year, less so if your comparing a 1.0L banger to a 335d or similar).
I have never had a problem with a turbo or a dpf. And you get turbo'd petrols too, so it's not like it's just a diesel cost. Then there is the higher purchase price of the diesel, which you get most of it back as the selling price is higher on the other end. The only time this is not relevant is when you run said car into the ground, in which case, your almost certain to get better value from the diesel.
Anyway, 2 options there. If you must get a second car, I would happily recommend a Passat Estate 1.9 TDI. Cheap to buy, relatively cheap to maintain, economical, and a cheeky remap will make the world of difference to it, and "might" give better economy as well as performance. And ISOFIX bars can be retrofitted at a little over £40 per side.
Then there is the LPG route. It's also a good one, so long as you have enough retailers locally. I had one on each end of the commute, within 5 miles of each end, and one in the middle, but always held off for the cheapest one (closest to work), as if I ran out of LPG, I still always had 1/4 - 1/2 tank of petrol anyway.
BTW, my commute is just over 120 miles a day, so pretty close to your situation. With around 30 miles A-Road, 80 miles dual carriageway and 15 miles town driving. And have done it in all the vehicles I have mentioned.
So, TLDR:
LPG the V8 and pay it off in 8 months
Buy a Passat TDI Estate, pay it off in 5 months
Both great options, and well worth doing.
Soldato
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- There's a voice that keeps on calling me.
You will not get 50mpg from a 1.3 yaris. We have one and it wont do that.
Id look at a 2005ish Accord Cdti. Just make sure the oil pump isnt rattling and your good to go. Failing that Octavia diesel.
My choice though would be an Audi A2. Nice funky car with character, very well built and bags of room inside. Plus its light as buggery so good for economy.
Id look at a 2005ish Accord Cdti. Just make sure the oil pump isnt rattling and your good to go. Failing that Octavia diesel.
My choice though would be an Audi A2. Nice funky car with character, very well built and bags of room inside. Plus its light as buggery so good for economy.
Not a sexy car but I've always got ridiculous MPG out of my mothers Honda Jazz's - a 03/04 1.4 Jazz will be practical, has an engine that likes to rev and should easily average 40mpg. I had 63mpg out of it on a run across the UK once and I don't think she's seen a tank of less than 36/37mpg and most of her driving is urban. Watch out for leaks in the boot (easily fixed), chocolate gearbox bearings (about £4-500) and solid red paintwork fading under the lacquer (impossible to polish without stripping the lacquer). They're the only two issues that she's had in 60k/10 years of ownership.
Caporegime
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Get a BMW 318 Touring
I had one recently and it was a damn good little car, ISOFIX, economical, good chassis, nice to drive, well built, cruise control, digital climate, electric windows, leather interior, etc. What more could someone want from a 2nd car than one of these?Complimented my Range Rover perfectly. Circumstances meant it became surplus to requirements but i'd absolutely recommend one with how cheap yet thoroughly competent they are.
This is a very good recommendation. People always automatically assume buy a diesel for MPG when a Petrol can be bought for thousands less and doesn't have the running costs of a diesel which can skew savings especially when you need a £400 replacement turbo.
I've looked at A2's in the past. The ultra economy one is the 1.4 TDI, which can get close to 80 MPG if you are sensible on a run. Problem is, they have comedy pricing because of this.
I like the idea of a Jazz, interesting you managed 63MPG on a run. I presume that was 50mph tailgating lorries?
I'm happy to have a simple N/A Petrol, as per my initial post
I'm really liking what I'm hearing about the Fiat Panda 100hp.
Simple 1.4 N/A engine. Should get close to 50MPG on the dual carriageway sections. Cheap as chips running costs (insurance/tax/servicing/tyres/brakes/etc) and brilliant if I want to wind down on the way home down the lanes and let the engine sing a bit.
Sure, it will be about as refined as sitting next to the space shuttle on take off, but it looks interesting. Can get them for about £2.5k also it seems.
Anyone here got or had one?
Simple 1.4 N/A engine. Should get close to 50MPG on the dual carriageway sections. Cheap as chips running costs (insurance/tax/servicing/tyres/brakes/etc) and brilliant if I want to wind down on the way home down the lanes and let the engine sing a bit.
Sure, it will be about as refined as sitting next to the space shuttle on take off, but it looks interesting. Can get them for about £2.5k also it seems.
Anyone here got or had one?
I'd give the Jazz a look too, the MIL has one and we use it when we are back in the UK sometimes. Hers is the 1.0l which is too small an engine, but the handling and drive are good, lots of space inside and good folding seats. Fitted one of my push bikes in with no worry.
I'd avoid the A2, my dad has one which gets awesome fuel economy but he's had a few pricey bills and trips to Audi with it and he hasn't done that many miles in it, I'd be surprised if it was over 100k.
I'd avoid the A2, my dad has one which gets awesome fuel economy but he's had a few pricey bills and trips to Audi with it and he hasn't done that many miles in it, I'd be surprised if it was over 100k.
My current 530d has a DPF, my previous 335d had one, as did my 2 previous A4 avants (a 2009 2.0 TDI and a 2012 2.0 TDI Quattro). Along with my A3 2.0 TDI (which was sold with 130k on it) before that.
I felt it wasn't necessary to list my recent car history as proof, but I guess it was necessary, as I was only talking about cars the OP could buy within his budget, which wouldn't have a DPF anyway.
I felt it wasn't necessary to list my recent car history as proof, but I guess it was necessary, as I was only talking about cars the OP could buy within his budget, which wouldn't have a DPF anyway.
We get 55 on our 1L yaris sitting at 70mph on motorway runs
Soldato
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What kind of MPG do you get from the 1.3?
If you're considering econoboxes then you will find it hard to beat a Fiesta 1.25, plenty of change from your budget to allow for any rust problems and parts don't get much cheaper. Pretty fun to drive, for what they are... I never calculated mpg on mine but I hear it is returning 50mpg!