Section 59s

MikeHiow

MikeHiow

MikeHiow

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Isle of Wight
I was just browsing a local forum that the local "cruisers" setup and frequent, and spotted an interesting discussion about Section 59s.

Let me start with the fact that these "Cruisers" today don't seem like the same kind of people that were around when I was their age, they don't generally drive around like idiots, or make lots of noise/rubbish wherever they go - most seem like genuinely nice lads who just like to enjoy spending their hard earned on their cars. None of them are what I consider to be chavs, either.

One of them complained about a Section 59 that his friend received, stating that yes he deserved that one, but the one previous he received unfairly, for playing football - which could have potentially left him in the **** this time around, as the copper could have seized it if we wished to.

Then a few others began to tell stories of various unfairly issued section 59s (as well as some that are honest when they deserved them).

Which left me thinking, after searching the internet, I cannot see any way of complaining or appealing against a Section 59, so what it is, is the Officers opinion, and that is the final word, too.

Anyone else had any experience with this? Know anyone that has complained? This is more a curiosity/rant than anything else.

I got one once, when I was 17, but I completely deserved it because I was being a dick sat there playing noddy at full blast (out of my then, expensive sound setup) as the Police entered a car park that a few friends and I were sat in.
 
If section 59's (ASBO?) are the same as "confiscating vehicle", then my friend had this twice over the last 4/5 years. He learnt his lesson the second time.

Basically a member of public reporting him for driving without due care and attention/endangerment to the public. The police rocked up at his place of work, took his keys and his car there and then. He then had to pay a fine to retrieve the vehicle from an impound iirc.

The second time this happened, he was told that they are collecting evidence to put forward a case to remove him from the road/something equally as sinister. However, he heard nothing for months and then received a letter to say that he had been cleared of the alleged offences, quite possibly because they only had one member of the public that he had probably upset and it wasn't enough to build a case. Or maybe they were waiting for him to do it again and stick the two reports down against him.

Either way, he was a silly boy and learnt a valuable lesson from the experience.
 
The local lads get these too. In fact the traffic cops round here seem to do nothing more than harass them. They don't bother trapping speeders. There really is nothing else to do around here for most people so they park up quietly, hang around for a bit then bugger off to someone's house or go for a drive to Blackpool or wherever. The Section 59s handed out seem to have shallow meaning and are just a way of giving out unproven punishment. That's how they're seen anyway.

What happened to getting a right royal bollocking over a shallow piece of paper with little meaning?
 
Theres been a few times when ive been to a car meet where the police have moved us on for just parking up and talking. It seemed a very daft thing to do but seem as no one fancied any sort of ticket we all moved and went somewhere else.
The scene seems to be dying out now-a-days, not many people can be bothered with the police and the places where you can meet up, you normally get someone complaining about all the cars and the police come anyway.
 
Me and my friends got one of these a few years back, we didn't even know at the time.

A group of us had been out for a drive and a chat in a pub, on the way back we were driving along normally minding our own business, no one was messing around or speeding. Suddenly a copper pulls in front of us and stops us all in a line on a quiet road, we had about 5-6 cars, most had 2 people in. The copper went to each persons window and told us to leave the area. We were about 15 miles from home so I didn't question him and assumed something else had happened there that night.

A few days later I received a Section 59 in the post, it stated we were 'causing an obstruction' and informed me if I was stopped again they would take my car. I was not impressed but took it no further, I had no more dealings with the police after that.
 
MikeHiow said:
I was just browsing a local forum that the local "cruisers" setup and frequent, and spotted an interesting discussion about Section 59s.

Let me start with the fact that these "Cruisers" today don't seem like the same kind of people that were around when I was their age, they don't generally drive around like idiots, or make lots of noise/rubbish wherever they go
Click to expand...

They dont ? really ? our local retail pack is full of them every weekend. Revving their engines, intimidating other road users, breaking into locked car parks, street racing, generally making a nuisance of themselves.
 
MrLOL said:
They dont ? really ? our local retail pack is full of them every weekend. Revving their engines, intimidating other road users, breaking into locked car parks, street racing, generally making a nuisance of themselves.
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Perhaps you get some idiots where you live, but I live in a nice place :D
 
My opinion on the cruises are that as long as its supervised and theres no messing around on public roads, people should be allowed to do what they want. The police can just set something up in an abandoned car park or something like that, moderate whats going on and have a set of dos and donts. It would stop people racing on the streets and let people show others what they have done to their own car. Of course you are going to get some stupid people but then they wont be allowed in the area and if they persist then they can get dealt with by the police. I go to these to see some nice cars that you dont see everyday on the road like RX-7s and AE86s are a few to mention.
 
As Dolph says, the Section 59 is a massive infringement on basic civil liberties. I can understand why they were introduced, but the complete lack of appeal process means they are wide open to abuse by the police.
 
You'd think Section 59 notices could be easily quashed.
If they weren't followed up with a prosecution under Sections 3 or 34, then the 'reasonable grounds' of the Constable are in question.
Does anyone ever question the validity of one of these?

I think Section 59 was originally intended to give Police powers against people driving on pavements or something, but was worded such that it's too easy to hand out to virtually anyone that an Officer might not like the look of. That, as has been stated, is bad.
 
markweatherill said:
If they weren't followed up with a prosecution under Sections 3 or 34, then the 'reasonable grounds' of the Constable are in question.
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There is no requirement for a further careless driving charge. If an officer believes that seizing the car is enough then he need not take any further action.
 
its a public order offence designed to take cars off boy racers and cruisers and the like.

Literally all the police officer has to do is say "your causing a nuisance, do it again and i'll take your car off you"

If that happens again, your car gets siezed. No court / desk seargant / etc.. needed. Just the word of one officer on 2 separate occasions.

The possibilityes for abuse are beyond belief.


More here

http://www.glass-uk.org/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=267

and here

http://www.kent.police.uk/About Kent Police/policies/m/m095.html

£150 to get your car back thankyou very much.

and this is the real gem

[/quote]8.4. Entry onto private premises to seize a vehicle is authorized; whilst a private dwelling is excluded, garages, sheds and land attached to a dwelling is included e.g. driveway, rear garden.[/quote]

yes they can come and take the car off out of your garage to sieze it :/
 
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Burnsy2023 said:
There is no requirement for a further careless driving charge. If an officer believes that seizing the car is enough then he need not take any further action.
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No, there's no requirement to prosecute. But if an offence has been committed then the perpetrator should be reported for it. If not, it calls into question the grounds for issuing the notice.
 
markweatherill said:
No, there's no requirement to prosecute. But if an offence has been committed then the perpetrator should be reported for it. If not, it calls into question the grounds for issuing the notice.
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You're making the mistake of assuming it is a good, well written law with appropriate safeguards in place.

When has that ever come from the current administration?
 
markweatherill said:
No, there's no requirement to prosecute. But if an offence has been committed then the perpetrator should be reported for it. If not, it calls into question the grounds for issuing the notice.
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Not at all. Think of it from an officer's point of view. If the vehicle has been seized the problem is likely to be solved. Why report it and have more paperwork?
 
NickXX said:
What is a Section 59? Is it like a police caution or better/worse?
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One of these:

59.jpg


Flawed legislation that's wide open to abuse, North Wales police use them as a "stay out of Dodge" warning to weekend bikers.
 
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