Security System

Danger Phoenix · 25 Oct 2013 at 15:52

In our new property we are planning to install wireless IP cameras which monitor the outside of the house.

The property is 17m across by 10m back, so I was thinking 4 cameras in total. Two in the front pointing to the front centre, and two at the back pointing towards the rear centre. I am hoping that this will cover the fences and front and rear entrances.

The IP cameras would be hooked up to my Synology Surveillance Station, so the recording/management part is covered but I have no idea on what cameras to get. Any suggestions?

RedvGreen · 25 Oct 2013 at 17:55

It is hard to portray this without coming across like a show-off, but in my profession we get to see and use a fair amount of hardware including IPCs. Avoid Wireless.

They are fairly easy to compromise, or at least to jam/disrupt. Always use Cat5/6 (ethernet). It is still possible to tap the line, but far more obvious and time consuming than wireless.

For a consumer, i'd opt for something like Y-Cams (nightvision external bullet) - run with Power over Ethernet from a midspan and you are laughing. Even if you just use Wireless functionality, you will still have to route cables, so you are not saving anything by not using Cat5/6 - infact, the ethernet cabling is thinner than the power cable, so you will be saving weight/length/drill-hole/repair size too!

Danger Phoenix · 25 Oct 2013 at 20:44

RedvGreen said:
It is hard to portray this without coming across like a show-off, but in my profession we get to see and use a fair amount of hardware including IPCs. Avoid Wireless.

They are fairly easy to compromise, or at least to jam/disrupt. Always use Cat5/6 (ethernet). It is still possible to tap the line, but far more obvious and time consuming than wireless.

For a consumer, i'd opt for something like Y-Cams (nightvision external bullet) - run with Power over Ethernet from a midspan and you are laughing. Even if you just use Wireless functionality, you will still have to route cables, so you are not saving anything by not using Cat5/6 - infact, the ethernet cabling is thinner than the power cable, so you will be saving weight/length/drill-hole/repair size too!

Power over ethernet? If all the cameras are on a switch (HP Procurve 1810-24G) will that be alright?

RedvGreen · 26 Oct 2013 at 15:10

Danger Phoenix said:
Power over ethernet? If all the cameras are on a switch (HP Procurve 1810-24G) will that be alright?

The POE midspan sits between the device needing power and the rest of the network. Essentially it adds power to the device, and scrubs the power away before it reaches the rest of the network.

You would therefore have a setup akin to:

<rest of network/internet> - ethernet - Network Switch - ethernet - midspan - ethernet - cameras

Midspans are available to support a variety of devices, from a single ethernet connection, right through to 12-24 and higher.

Never connection a POE live cable to a switch, always make sure the midspan input is the side connected to the network, and midspan output to the devices. These will be clearly labelled to avoid error.

Danger Phoenix · 26 Oct 2013 at 15:15

Would this serve as a midspan:
http://www.tp-link.com/en/products/details/?categoryid=233&model=TL-SG1008PE

I would then connect this to the existing switch, and then all the cameras to this. I know I only plan for 4 cameras, but I may want more in the future so just planning for that.

RedvGreen · 26 Oct 2013 at 15:19

That would suffice too - I was of the belief that you already had a switch that you wished to use!

Danger Phoenix · 26 Oct 2013 at 15:23

RedvGreen said:
That would suffice too - I was of the belief that you already had a switch that you wished to use!

I did, but I did some Googling and I don't think the one I have supports PoE so I would need something else that would.

Any recommendations on a midspan with 8 ports?

RedvGreen · 26 Oct 2013 at 15:29

You won't go wrong with using the big Network hardware companies (D-Link, TP-Link, Power Dsine) but also several IP camera manufacturers deliver decent kit which is tested to work with IP cameras (Axis are the big name here).

Danger Phoenix · 28 Oct 2013 at 19:23

I had a look at the Y-Cams and although they look amazing, they are a little out of our budget. Are there any others you would recommend which are cheaper?

bitslice · 29 Oct 2013 at 22:47

Passive injector

Strip the network cable back, cut wires 4,5,7,8
connect 24v or 48v to pins 4 & 5, 0v to pins 7 & 8

(bit deleted)

Why are the cameras pointing back at the house, what is to stop someone walking up behind the camera and cutting the wire?

Danger Phoenix · 30 Oct 2013 at 00:45

bitslice said:
Why are the cameras pointing back at the house, what is to stop someone walking up behind the camera and cutting the wire?

Apologies if I wasn't clear, I meant at the back as in at the back of the house to cover the rear garden and fence lines.

bitslice · 30 Oct 2013 at 11:28

So attached to the house then? Was confused by the wireless request.
Tbh fixed wired cameras would be cheaper, you have to run power regardless so run some coax as well (this can be done in the roof space). A 12v fused CCTV PSU box would be a bit more reliable than the power adapters the cameras come with.

Danger Phoenix · 30 Oct 2013 at 15:15

bitslice said:
So attached to the house then? Was confused by the wireless request.
Tbh fixed wired cameras would be cheaper, you have to run power regardless so run some coax as well (this can be done in the roof space). A 12v fused CCTV PSU box would be a bit more reliable than the power adapters the cameras come with.

Is PoE not a viable solution? From what RedvGreen was advising, it sounds like a good solution to me.

bitslice · 30 Oct 2013 at 20:17

Danger Phoenix said:
Is PoE not a viable solution? From what RedvGreen was advising, it sounds like a good solution to me.

Oh I'm not implying RedvGreen was wrong, I'm just chucking in my opinion.
PoE is great from an install point of view, only one cable to run, camera can be moved to any data outlet.
It's the same scenario as wireless, again only one cable needs providing (in this case, power). both choices have pros and cons

However in a domestic situation it's maybe overkill? (IMHO), it's not hard to run two wires in a house and you are not relying on a particular cameras extra functionality or special switches.
However I do like overkill for any DIY so if you have the money, do it

IIRC PoE was really intended for wireless access points? but then all sorts of tat gets lumped onto a network, IP cameras being one of them. Although really IP streaming really needs it's own hardware and shouldn't touch the corporate side.

LeeUK · 3 Nov 2013 at 10:27

Your average snooper arounder is not going to know about blocking your wifi camera or indeed know if your camera is running on wifi.

Insomniak · 4 Nov 2013 at 19:59

Regarding cameras have a look at the Merrit Lilin LR7022 at about £180.00. I have one of these connected to my Synolgy NAS using SS and it works a treat using the general ONVIF driver.

Danger Phoenix · 9 Nov 2013 at 17:09

The Merit Lilin ones do look good and they are quite a bit cheaper than the Y-Cams. Do you have any recommendations on their dome versions?

Duke · 9 Nov 2013 at 20:44

Have you had problems in the past? Seems a bit ott to put cameras up straight away?

Danger Phoenix · 9 Nov 2013 at 23:06

Duke said:
Have you had problems in the past? Seems a bit ott to put cameras up straight away?

Haven't actually lived there yet, lol

Since we are getting the whole place done up, just want to get all the wiring etc done and not have to worry about it in the future.

Insomniak · 10 Nov 2013 at 16:16

Danger Phoenix said:
The Merit Lilin ones do look good and they are quite a bit cheaper than the Y-Cams. Do you have any recommendations on their dome versions?

I found out about Merrit Lilin on the Synology forums where they were highly recommended. I haven't got any experience of the dome cameras but I know you can get a HD Dome for £110+vat. The camera I've got works great with SS although it wont work with the latest patch for some reason.
Heres a link to the Synology discussion but looking at the last reply you may have already found it.
http://forum.synology.com/enu/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=68688