Self defence - what rights do you have if .....

Soldato
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In Swissyland - you enter a house, you might as well be dead because ALOT of houses have guns and you will be shot entering. Now in the UK I am unsure on the law, some women was burgled (in the news) and the guy who did it had an accident and SUED her. So in four cases I will present:

basically what lengh would you go to to protect yourself/home

You're grabbed and told to empty your stuff and hand over money?
Someone accesses your car on the driveway/road
Someone tresspasses in your garden
Someone enters your house

For example, theres someone in your house and they are loading dvd players, you go down and hear them, are you legally allowed to use a knife?, a bat or if legal cs gas/pepperspray or a taser?

If you legally own a shotgun/rifle can you use that or threten to?

I hear if it's INSIDE your house then you can use "reasonable force?" what is this? snatching it back or if they've a bb gun blowing thier brains out since it's 1:1 match?

Even if the intruder dies, provided you have used reasonable force in the circumstances described then you will not necessarily be prosecuted. If, having disabled the intruder you then go on and inflict further punishment then this would be deemed to be excessive and gratuitous force and you could be prosecuted.

ahh so taser them and if you lock them up till police arrive that's OK? buthanging them upside down and burning thier toes isn't? :p

In your garden/shed does this apply?

We've got some cctv stuff en route so I hope to secure everthing to the bone.

Has anyone here had experiences *UK REALLY* My bike and sisters were stolen from our shed since then it's not the same. Even my other sister is scared, worried and I think this would play on her mind
 
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Recently there was a farmer who was being burgled and he shot at the intruders with his legally owned shotgun. He was arrested but released without charge, the buckshot also helped trace them.

Wasn't there a news story on it recently in the past few months because the PM commented on how it shouldn't be that people get arrested for defending their homes? and the public thought he was generally aiming to change the law but in the end he was just giving his opinion?


Just to add, my understanding of reasonable force would be that I could use as much force neccesary so that the intruder is unable to do or potentially do any harm. If that means hitting him with a tennis racket until he's unconscious then so be it.
 
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Man of Honour
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It's always down to the facts of a given case. In short, as long as you don't act like an idiot, then you'll probably be OK.

For example, if you found a man stealing your bike who then ran at you aggressively, you'd probably be OK in hitting him with a bat, although obviously not if you hit him multiple times in the head after he is on the floor! For the same set of facts the use of a knife is extremely unlikely to give you a valid defence, but add in a couple more facts, say he had a weapon or said he was going to kill you, then again this puts things more towards your favour.

Don't worry about it too much.
 
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is that story about the woman being succesfully sued by someone who broke into her property true?
 
Soldato
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Ka23209856 said:
Recently there was a farmer who was being burgled and he shot at the intruders with his legally owned shotgun. He was arrested but released without charge, the buckshot also helped trace them.

Wasn't there a news story on it recently in the past few months because the PM commented on how it shouldn't be that people get arrested for defending their homes? and the public thought he was generally aiming to change the law but in the end he was just giving his opinion?


Just to add, my understanding of reasonable force would be that I could use as much force neccesary so that the intruder is unable to do or potentially do any harm. If that means hitting him with a tennis racket until he's unconscious then so be it.

R v Martin, he was actually convicted of murder because the force was unreasonable and the threat was not present anymore. He shot the guy as he was leaving the property.

You don't have many rights here unfortunately, you can defend your property, family and people under your responsibility however ONLY with reasonable force. This depends on the threat you're faced with, for instance if you have been punched, you can't carve the guy up and chop his arm off. You can punch him back, no more.

Never attack someone who is leaving your property, they are leaving. The situation is out of your hands and it will not stand in a court of law.

Basically yes, it's a 1:1 match up. Anything more and you are in the wrong, the force is seen as unreasonable. If you are to restrain the offender, do so with as little force as possible.

Never just attack a burglar or someone in your house (or on your property)

I have an A-Level in law.
 
Soldato
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It's a very grey area. It appears if they are INSIDE your home and you;re a family man or just 1-2 males rest female, kids too then yes you can. Car/sheds may be different.

As for streets it's alot more dangeious because you're more likely to have more people attack you and you're not allowed weapons on the street either but most kids here have them (on the street)

http://www.lowtechcombat.com/2011/12/is-killing-someone-who-broke-into-your.html

Some good links. What is the law on weapons even? Another grey area. When I was a kid I collected them, I had a repclia SIG 228 and looking at REAL ones there was NOT that much diff - bar the mag and chamber however we have gun amistys here and after finding out it was illegal as it's classed as a "replica" I gave it in. Now I was in a thread here and people had rifles and there was some shop/ebay-like place selling guns that complied with UK laws but I saw AK's and real guns that were disabled surely this would become a replica and not illegal?

All BB guns are 50% sprayed a certain colour (blue green) so it's not mistaken.

Never attack someone who is leaving your property, they are leaving. The situation is out of your hands and it will not stand in a court of law.

Basically yes, it's a 1:1 match up. Anything more and you are in the wrong, the force is seen as unreasonable. If you are to restrain the offender, do so with as little force as possible.

Aye yeah, about 10 years ago, we had a camera stolen and SOME money in Turkey it was INSIDE and the guy must of climibed up (1st floor :() and and the locks were quite poor on them and he walked past rooms. Stole and left - it was scary as hell knowing someone(s) had entered your property. That's when me and my dad always became so defensive about fantisies of someone breaking in and flashing them up, robbing them. thier house and leave them 100miles away with nothing LOL.

but I am very kill or be killed (well NOT kill) - I was bullied in school for 2-3 years and it really messed me it was one guy 3 years older and I was 12-13. Not much really ever happened dispite this, although I knew where he lived as we had busses pick everyone up outside thier house. My confidence dropped, one day he went too far, he punched me (nothing *serops) and I asked what the hell man (wasn't funny or anything) he came back and punched me proper squre on and left laighing, I was taken to the nurse and parents came. They thought I fell untill I mentioned his name. Mu dad said either legal action or fight back. that day was aweful. I walked in and just never cared and laughed this time I didn't.... - I was asked about this blackeye it was proper. Then on his own, I had used a bat for revenge - I dissagree weapon over him but he was ALOT older and this bullying would not stop. Wasmt long till I had people egging me as schools are, I told him - if happened again I would have your house petrol bombed and left, I was expelled. Now this IS off-topic but it's how far you push someone till they fight back. I never laughed or anything I dropped it - he never spoke/looked at me AGAIN.

Thankyou. If someone was shown the door and to leave and they complied I would but I would keep guards up.

Tasers and pepperspray are section 1 firearms, and illegal, so out of the equation to begin with.

Agr dammit. Stupid that is, since they aren't very offensive more defensive like rape and a woman.
 
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R v Martin, he was actually convicted of murder because the force was unreasonable and the threat was not present anymore. He shot the guy as he was leaving the property.

You don't have many rights here unfortunately, you can defend your property, family and people under your responsibility however ONLY with reasonable force. This depends on the threat you're faced with, for instance if you have been punched, you can carve the guy up and chop his arm off. You can punch him back, no more.

Never attack someone who is leaving your property, they are leaving. The situation is out of your hands and it will not stand in a court of law.

Basically yes, it's a 1:1 match up. Anything more and you are in the wrong, the force is seen as unreasonable. If you are to restrain the offender, do so with as little force as possible.

Never just attack a burglar or someone in your house (or on your property)

I have an A-Level in law.

There's a more recent case than Tony Martin where the guy got off despite shooting the intruders.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1401124/Farmer-who-shot-intruder-walks-free.html
 
Man of Honour
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You don't have many rights here unfortunately, you can defend your property, family and people under your responsibility however ONLY with reasonable force.

I think being allowed to do what is reasonable in any given circumstance is a pretty comprehensive and sufficient right.
 
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Its a very grey area to be honest and one that I would wage is almost purely based on the views of the judge of the case. There was another incident where 4 guys tryed to rob a house and two of them where shot, this was deemed as resonable force by the judge but only becuase there had been 4 people, if there had been 2 and he had done what he did to just the 2 people that would have not been reasonable force and he would have been charged.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...as-couple-are-held-for-shooting-burglars.html
 
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If someone was in my house and I had a gun I would tell them to drop whatever there taking and ask them to leave and ring police, if they had a melee weapons and went for me i'd shoot, idc what the law is.

If I had a bat and they were rummaging through stuff or seen me I would whack them straight up
 
Soldato
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having practised Ju Jitsu for a few years now we regularly have this debate, we have had loads of police in-put and their stance has always been using reasonable force is a wishy washy term...but you are allowed to defend your family, home and belongings from anyone...if you feel threatened you are allowed to to make the first strike. Ive been in situations at work where I have felt threatened and pre empted an attack and put the person on the floor with a simple wrist lock (ive never damaged anyone) and then called security, this accounts for 0.1% of my defence though id always try and talk my way out of it or remove my self from the situation.

If I was being burgled even with the knife training ive done we are always taught if you see the blade then get out of there....but if you see the blade it usually wont be used as its all bluff, its the knife user that knows what he is doing that is scary.

I guess my stance would be safety first, myself and my family members can not be replaced, everything else is replaceable.



rotters
 
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