Self Defense in The UK

[Gibbo3771]

6% of all murders are knife murders? Or do you mean 6% of all deaths are knife crimes? If the latter, i dont agree that 6% can be referred to as 'mere'.

and junkies and kids are some of the most dangerous people around. at least hardened criminals have a full understanding of what they are doing, unlike junkies and kids

Murders sorry, meant murders.

Junkies and kids are also vulnerable and stupid, I would rather be confronted by someone that is completely nervous, probably more scared than me, than a guy that grabs me and instantly presses a knife against my jugular.

 

[theleg]

Murders sorry, meant murders.

Junkies and kids are also vulnerable and stupid, I would rather be confronted by someone that is completely nervous, probably more scared than me, than a guy that grabs me and instantly presses a knife against my jugular.

Guess that makes us different then. Id much rather have someone whos experienced and stable and knows that a mugging is a mugging. Rather than someone who is either high or is jittery as hell from withdrawal...or a kid who might be looking to prove something and doesnt understand real life yet..

but thats a bit of a tangent.

 

[K1LLSW1TCH]

Why aren't we allowed to carry pepper spray?

 

[kwerk]

Why would you want to defend yourself? That's the government's job. Don't worry about it.

 

[theleg]

Why aren't we allowed to carry pepper spray?

it is illegal to carry ANYTHING if you intend to use it as a weapon.

 

[Pestilence]

Some Insanity Sauce or Da Bomb: The Final Answer, slightly diluted in a little water pistol. Job done.

Asked why? Well, I enjoy it on my food but have to dilute it. Easiest way to carry it around and dispense!

 

[Gibbo3771]

Why aren't we allowed to carry pepper spray?

It is essentially classes as an acid spray, according to Google.

 

[Gibbo3771]

Some Insanity Sauce or Da Bomb: The Final Answer, slightly diluted in a little water pistol. Job done.

Asked why? Well, I enjoy it on my food but have to dilute it. Easiest way to carry it around and dispense!

Someone also recommended some watered down tobasco sauce on eve lol.

 

[theleg]

Some Insanity Sauce or Da Bomb: The Final Answer, slightly diluted in a little water pistol. Job done.

Asked why? Well, I enjoy it on my food but have to dilute it. Easiest way to carry it around and dispense!

Id love to see you try that

 

[Angilion]

If the attacker had a taser yes,

In a society in which tasers are easily obtained and in which their victims are quite likely to have one, attackers would be likely to have one too.

jumping to statistics here most of the knife crime in Scotland itself is mainly carrying, the actual use of the knife for wounding someone is significantly lower, dropping by 25% or so since 2008, to a mere 6% of all deaths.

These people that rob people at knife point are not using the knife as a weapon, they mainly use it as a way of putting the fear in the person, it becomes a weapon when the attacker panics or something does no go to plan.

You've just thoroughly countered your own argument. More than that - you've reversed it. If you follow the paragraph you wrote above, then being armed is the opposite of self defence. Pulling a knife on the attacker is definitely not part of their plan for the attack and is likely to panic them, so by your own argument it hugely increases the risk to the victim.

My interpretation is that if a knife is being used to force someone to obey, it's a weapon. It's also a threat to kill. So, for example, if someone pulled a knife on someone else and demanded they hand over their valuables and that person somehow managed to kill them there and then at the scene, I'd rule that reasonable force in defence unless they had been disarmed and rendered helpless first.

Baring in mind most knife crime is not committed by hardened criminals, it is mainly junkies and kids.

Firstly, junkies and kids may be hardened criminals.

Secondly, junkies and kids who use knives as a threat to kill people in order to force them to hand over valuables are almost certainly less reluctant to use violence than decent people who don't do that, which was the core of my point.

What I am getting at is, most criminals use things like knifes/guns etc etc to scare the person, not hurt them. If you happen to come across that one psycho that stabs you 43 times with a pencil THEN takes your wallet, you are damn unlucky.

True, but what does that have to do with tasering someone?

If you have managed to draw your weapon while they're threatening you with theirs, then using their weapon on you before you use your weapon on them is self defence from their point of view. It's not like a psycho stabbing you 43 times with a pencil for no sane reason.

 

[Pestilence]

Id love to see you try that

So would I, LOL.

Probably get about two squeezes in "Dirty Harry" mode, neither of which manage to engage pressure to squirt, thus looking like a total tool before getting stomped.

 

[Morba]

When it comes to fight or flight, most people without confrontational skills will choose flight or the next best option - do as you are told.

Small woman, not with a fighting or aggressive background v an aggressive mugger...... your partner will not come out of it well should she decide, while shaking and nervous, to force an attack on the attacker.

Don't arm her with anything, just help her learn to see the quickest escape. If that means handing over her bag and contents then so be it.

 

[Gibbo3771]

Above poster owned me, yeah I never thought through what I was saying. I get easily lost when trying to get my point across.

Always good to have someone proof read it haha.

 

[dowie]

it is illegal to carry ANYTHING if you intend to use it as a weapon.

this AFAIK

One potential option is to have something on you which could have a secondary use as a weapon...

Obviously the best option is to extract yourself from the situation when mugged (i.e. run like ****) but if you can't then a decent sturdy umbrella with a pointy end can keep some distance between you and an attacker (obviously it isn't a plausible option to carry if its a bright sunny day).

The other option is a torch - prob best to avoid the *obvious* weapon ones with attack bezels... if its bright enough then shining it in someones eyes at night can disorientate them for a second or too... at least gives you a chance to deliver a kick in the nuts... they also make a nice kubotan

I guess your last option is a pen... unfortunately involves getting close to the attacker unlike a torch or umbrella - stronger pens could make a kubotan too... then again the pointy end of a simple biro delivered to the eyeball or throat could be rather nasty.... (prob not advisable to do so unless you're pretty much in fear of your life)

 

[Gibbo3771]

this AFAIK

One potential option is to have something on you which could have a secondary use as a weapon...

Obviously the best option is to extract your self from the situation when mugged (i.e. run like ****) but if you can't then a decent sturdy umbrella with a pointy end can keep some distance between you and an attacker (obviously it isn't a plausible option to carry if its a bright sunny day).

The other option is a torch - prob best to avoid the *obvious* weapon ones with attack bezels... if its right enough then shining it in someones eyes at night can disorientate them for a second or too... at least gives you a chance to deliver a kick in the nuts... they also make a nice kubotan

I guess your last option is a pen... unfortunately involves getting close to the attacker unlike a torch or umbrella - stronger pens could make a kubotan too... then again the pointy end of a simple biro delivered to the eyeball or throat could be rather nasty.... (prob not advisable to do so unless you're pretty much in fear of your life)

I am seriously worried about how much you have thought over the negatives and positives of using a pointy umbrella, a torch and a Biro pen as a weapon.

 

[dowie]

? didn't require much thought... tis rather obvious really

you've started a whole thread dedicated to the topic - to be worried about an actual answer to your question is a bit odd...

 

[Gibbo3771]

? didn't require much thought... tis rather obvious really

you've started a whole thread dedicated to the topic - to be worried about an actual answer to your question is a bit odd...

Maybe it is just me, I never actually regarded or thought about a pointy umbrella, a torch or a pen.

I think that is why it struck me lol.

However, your reply was damn accurate

 

[Angilion]

[..]
The other option is a torch - prob best to avoid the *obvious* weapon ones with attack bezels... if its bright enough then shining it in someones eyes at night can disorientate them for a second or too... at least gives you a chance to deliver a kick in the nuts... [..]

I've read what seems to me to be a plausible argument that there's a better course of action - go for their knees, not their nuts:

1) Not all attackers are male and the less you have to think, the better. Ideally, you want a thoughtless response because that's faster, and that means one that will work on everyone.

2a) Men generally instinctively protect their balls a lot, more so than other parts of their body

2b) The higher you have to kick, the longer it takes.

2c) From most angles, a man's balls are at least partially protected by his legs.

So if you're aiming for their balls there's a higher chance of missing. A kick on the thigh won't put them down, but it will anger them.

So a kick to the knee, according to this line of argument, has less chance of failure. It should be effective enough because it might well put them in hospital, let alone down on the ground, and even if it doesn't it will almost certainly slow them down enough for you to be able to run faster than them.

Also, kicking a man in the balls might kill him and that might be more force than is reasonable or you want to use.

 

[bartledvd]

i would much rather my misses hand over her phone and purse than try to tackle some random thug.
it is part of why you get insurance so you do not have to put your self at risk off injury or death is not really worth a phone or the bags contents.
for me i am happy these things are illegal as at least if some one is found to have them by the police they will be removed and hopefully it will stop some of the little ***** having them

 

[Gibbo3771]

i would much rather my misses hand over her phone and purse than try to tackle some random thug.
it is part of why you get insurance so you do not have to put your self at risk off injury or death is not really worth a phone or the bags contents.
for me i am happy these things are illegal as at least if some one is found to have them by the police they will be removed and hopefully it will stop some of the little ***** having them

Oh yeah defo, I would not like to imagine what could happen.

I was merely using her as an example though, it could be any women. I am mainly just annoyed that when situations like this arise, there are so many laws in place that basically prohibit you from defending yourself.

I have heard of many cases, even myself have been charge for defending myself due to insufficient evidence.