Selling my car. No patience

dirtychinchilla said:
I get all that. Finance can be done through different ways to be fair. But 30%, really?! Like at least get somewhere close.



If they're willing to negotiate. I've found myself stonewalled every time, though maybe I just don't have enough to offer to make it worth negotiating with them.

Guildford BMW have been utterly ****.
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The problem is a BMW dealer doesn't really want your used Audi. Really the p/x is just a way of securing a sale rather than because they plan to make money on selling Q2s. Put yourself in their shoes, they need to get it cheap enough that they can turn a profit selling it to auction OR with enough markup to fund the overheads associated with running a dealership, offering warranty, prepping the car for sale etc etc.

Putting your car through HPIvaluations, assuming Excellent condition it comes out at:

Trade-in: £14.7 - 16.1k
Private: £16.75 - 17.5k
Forecourt: £17.4 - 19k

If we take the top numbers from all that what it implies is you could expect to get up to £16k trading it in or £17.5k selling privately. This is exactly in line with what I said earlier about a minimum £1.5k overhead for selling to a dealer.
Rival cars should be going for £19k from dealers (as we can see on AT).

Really you want to be getting at least £15k trade-in. But it depends a bit how much you are buying the 320i for and how good a deal that is. If its listed at top whack then there's possibly some wiggle room there. It really doesn't matter if they drop the price on the new car or they give you more on the p/x, all you need to worry about it minimising the cost to change. It can be an issue if you've approached the dealer with the most competitive price as they already know that so will resist dropping their price. But you go in armed with the CAP valuations to explain you know your trade-in is worth more than their offer. What you don't do, and I'm not suggesting you have, is say "oh I looked on AT and saw the same model up for sale for £19k" because then you lose credibility, they can easily bat that argument away, it's like saying to a restaurant "I ain't paying £20 for this steak pal it's a fiver in Lidl!". It's harder for them to argue against CAP.
edit: as a random aside, why isn't haggling in restaurants more of a thing?! I guess because haggling works best when there is only 1 of an item, it would be awkward if two tables paid different prices for the same meal, albeit that happens with vouchers etc anyway.
 
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jaybee said:
At first glance there are a lot of Q2's on auto trader for 15/16k of the same year. But if you put filters to be automatic gearbox (seems to command a lot more), similar mileage and the specific 1.5TFSI engine, I'm getting 21.5 down to 18.5 from dealers within a 40 mile radius of OP.
OP's listing is 20k.
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I think the OP needs to compete with the £18.5K dealer price to achieve a private sale, somewhere in the £17K region might incentivise a buyer with a view to a haggle down to £16.5K?
 
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jaybee said:
At first glance there are a lot of Q2's on auto trader for 15/16k of the same year. But if you put filters to be automatic gearbox (seems to command a lot more), similar mileage and the specific 1.5TFSI engine, I'm getting 21.5 down to 18.5 from dealers within a 40 mile radius of OP.
OP's listing is 20k.
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Thank you.

HangTime said:
The problem is a BMW dealer doesn't really want your used Audi. Really the p/x is just a way of securing a sale rather than because they plan to make money on selling Q2s. Put yourself in their shoes, they need to get it cheap enough that they can turn a profit selling it to auction OR with enough markup to fund the overheads associated with running a dealership, offering warranty, prepping the car for sale etc etc.

Putting your car through HPIvaluations, assuming Excellent condition it comes out at:

Trade-in: £14.7 - 16.1k
Private: £16.75 - 17.5k
Forecourt: £17.4 - 19k

If we take the top numbers from all that what it implies is you could expect to get up to £16k trading it in or £17.5k selling privately. This is exactly in line with what I said earlier about a minimum £1.5k overhead for selling to a dealer.
Rival cars should be going for £19k from dealers (as we can see on AT).

Really you want to be getting at least £15k trade-in. But it depends a bit how much you are buying the 320i for and how good a deal that is. If its listed at top whack then there's possibly some wiggle room there. It really doesn't matter if they drop the price on the new car or they give you more on the p/x, all you need to worry about it minimising the cost to change. It can be an issue if you've approached the dealer with the most competitive price as they already know that so will resist dropping their price. But you go in armed with the CAP valuations to explain you know your trade-in is worth more than their offer. What you don't do, and I'm not suggesting you have, is say "oh I looked on AT and saw the same model up for sale for £19k" because then you lose credibility, they can easily bat that argument away, it's like saying to a restaurant "I ain't paying £20 for this steak pal it's a fiver in Lidl!". It's harder for them to argue against CAP.
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I didn't try and sell it to BMW to be fair. I've been to Audi with it in the recent past.

Bint Box said:
I think the OP needs to compete with the £18.5K dealer price to achieve a private sale, somewhere in the £17.5K region might incentivise a buyer with a view to a haggle down to £16.75K or £17K?
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If it goes that low I'll just keep it.
 
Anything is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

Unless we're a car dealer we all probably think our cars are worth more than the market rate. But, at the end of the day, to convert that object into $$ requires someone to open a wallet and hand it over. If the highest offer is 70% of the asking price, then it's arguably worth 70% in today's market...

I understand the OP's frustration that the trade in price is 30% less than what he feels it's worth - but I thought the last few pages suggested it's "worth" closer to 17k outside the dealer network. The other aspect that needs to be realised, as some have mentioned, the 2nd hand market is on its knees at the moment - prices are dropping every month ontop of the typical depreciation. So any dealer needs to consider how long the car will take to go through prep and be sat on the forecourt before it sells. The link below suggests they're now losing 10% a quarter - so put yourself in the dealer's shoes... It's not an exclusive car so it might take some time to sell - he could list it for 18-19k today, but he still needs to make a profit when it's potentially only worth £16.2-17k in 3 months...
cardealermagazine.co.uk

Used car prices tumble again in December – but will begin to stabilise in 2024 – Car Dealer Magazine

Used car prices in 2024 are likely to begin to stabilise after the dramatic drops seen in the last three months. Revealing a 2.1% fall in trade used car
cardealermagazine.co.uk

The other question, that I don't think anyone has asked...

The OP was initially adamant he expects/needs £20k for this Q2 - is that the outstanding finance on the car? I think there was a post suggesting there's monthly payments on it, so is it finance free or what?

Existing finance on a car will put off more buyers and might need mentioning in any advert if it's the case and the majority of people buying a car over a couple k will run a carvertical/hpi report.


If the trade-in is £14k then what are WBAC, Motorway, etc. offering? It's possibly a little more than a trade in, but obviously still less than an autotrader advert. What's the going rate on Facebook marketplace/ebay - as they could be even lower than Autotrader...


dlockers said:
Because you don't offer:
1. Credit card payment (cashback)
2. Finance (lets be honest, the audience for these cars will generally be finance buyers as there are much better value for money cars if you had £19k burning a hole in your pocket)
3. Peace of mind/recompence if there is an issue (chargeback, main dealer complaints procured, ombudsman)
4. Warranty for the first 12 months (usually, at least).

I'd 110% rather pay £19k main dealer than ~£17500 private (is probably the extent of my tolerance, but I imagine others in this market would be way more risk averse).
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Not to mention a dealer:
5. trade in - as discussed here, it's not the best rate, but it's still an option. It's unlikely the OP will happily let someone trade in their old car against this.
6. choice - a Q2 isn't a rare car, so it's unlikely to be the only one at a dealer (or car supermarket). So a buyer can have a view at a couple different years/specs, or even compare against some other models.
7. easy test drive, which can be a nightmare of an issue when buying/selling privately

The irony is the OP is wanting to buy his new BM from a dealer but (initially) overlooked the (arguably deserved) premium for the dealer's stock, and why a private sale for anything "generic" over ~10k can be a nightmare... I understand your frustration and wish you the best with it - last time I tried to sell a car privately was back in 2016 and it was an immaculate 4 yr old limited edition MX5, it was listed about a k under dealers and nothing, even 2k under, nothing. After about 6 weeks I gave up and WBAC'd it. The frustration was that with Covid that year/model was the same price last year - so it would have effectively been depreciation-free for 6 years... oh well...
 
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dirtychinchilla said:
I didn't try and sell it to BMW to be fair. I've been to Audi with it in the recent past.
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Ah, definitely worth a try then because a p/x should normally fetch more than a straight sale (because it drives their own sales). Whether this offsets the presumed preference of Audi receiving Audi stock, who knows.
dirtychinchilla said:
If it goes that low I'll just keep it.
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Bint Box said:
Resolved, car unsold, nothing to see here, move on...
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It's a fair attitude though - it's not just about what someone will pay for an item, but also what the owner will sell it for. My wife sold her old car and it was basically at the point where it was going to fetch so little relative to what I considered the utility to be, and fact it was 'young for its age' (replacement engine, clutch, fuel tank...) that I asked my dad if he wanted it to replace his 14 year old Astra.
 
dirtychinchilla said:
I get all that. Finance can be done through different ways to be fair. But 30%, really?! Like at least get somewhere close.
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So lets say a 30% markup between when you trade it in and what they stick it on the forecourt at. What sort of profit margin do you think that equates to?

Then lets spread that same percentage over 100 cars. How many of that 100 will throw a massive bill pre or post sale and have to be covered under warranty wiping out some/any profit?

I have very little time for the car retail industry as a sector but you can see why its the big players that can shift thousands of cars that are actually sustainable.
 
lordrobs said:
So lets say a 30% markup between when you trade it in and what they stick it on the forecourt at. What sort of profit margin do you think that equates to?

Then lets spread that same percentage over 100 cars. How many of that 100 will throw a massive bill pre or post sale and have to be covered under warranty wiping out some/any profit?

I have very little time for the car retail industry as a sector but you can see why its the big players that can shift thousands of cars that are actually sustainable.
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Yeah it sounds terrible. Someone should pay me instead of them as I'm not trying to cover my margins, just trying to move on!
 
Bear said:
Its just the way it goes. Ive just traded in my 2019 E63S for £44k and they will pass it to their sister dealer that sells Mercedes and it will be on their forecourt for mid to high £50k at a guess
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I know. I understand that they have margins etc, I just don't appreciate that the consumer gets shafted for doing their own thing.

For me, anything I know I'll keep forever I don't take amazing care of. But as soon as I own something that I know I will eventually want to sell, whether it's a car, a guitar, or computer parts, I keep it pristine if at all possible, keep the boxes, etc. and when it comes to selling, I take great care to take good quality photos, make good ads, and be conscientious. That's how I manage to sell stuff at a decent price. On eBay, I always wait for the 80% off listing fees etc, and I'm very thorough, and every I sell I post the next day, and more often than not the same day.

I feel the same about the car. I've done my best to make it as good as possible, treated it very well, cleaned the **** out of it, taken good photos, wrote a detailed description so that people can see that I'm honest and conscientious. And I really don't appreciate having to give up that value because someone has overheads to meet.
 
unfortunately, any item, or in your case, your car is only worth what a buyer is willing to pay, not the seller's perceived value of the item
for 99.99% of car buyers, warranty (fwiw) and the ability to take out finance is worth more than some old joe bloggs saying that "i've taken good care of the car bruv, trust me" with nothing to back up on beside's their word
 
tamzzy said:
unfortunately, any item, or in your case, your car is only worth what a buyer is willing to pay, not the seller's perceived value of the item
for 99.99% of car buyers, warranty (fwiw) and the ability to take out finance is worth more than some old joe bloggs saying that "i've taken good care of the car bruv, trust me" with nothing to back up on beside's their word
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FWIW is worth is important here...doesn't cover any wearable parts so really, it doesn't cover that much!

happy_2008 said:
Probably not the best time to be selling a car to be honest, might have better luck after January
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You might be right there. I was thinking today that I might cancel the deposit on the new car to take the pressure off for getting this sold. At the very least, it may encourage them to drop the price. It's not the only car in England that I would go for.
 
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