Seperates vs AV receiver

nightrider1470

nightrider1470

nightrider1470

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My setup is... Yamaha A1030 pre outs >>>>>>> Marantz mm77025 >>>>>> Focal 816v

I'm planning to upgrade to the Focal 836v.

Just wondering if its worth upgrading to a pre amp as well.

I listen to 2 channel stereo

Thanks
 
Adding more equipment (in this case a preamp) won't necessarily improve your system. In this case I would expect it to add nothing but distortion.

The only reason I can see for a pre-amp here are 1. you have other sources besides the Yamaha, 2. whichever volume control you currently use (receiver/power amp) is inadequate.

Out of interest, why are you running the Marantz? Have you tested the Yamaha on its own? To answer the thread title, if everything is running through the receiver anyway I'd be inclined to use its integrated amp unless it's noticeably poor.
 
I suggested the OP ask this question here rather than in sound city.

What I can gather is that he is wondering whether it's worth getting a good quality stereo pre amp, rather than using the Yamaha AV receive as a pre amp.

I think he uses a 5/7.1 speaker setup from the Yamaha, so got a power amp purely for a stereo setup for his Focal speakers.
 
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Marsman said:
I suggested the OP ask this question here rather than in sound city.

What I can gather is that he is wondering whether it's worth getting a good quality power amp, rather than using the Yamaha AV receive as a pre amp.

I think he uses a 5/7.1 speaker setup from the Yamaha, so got a power amp purely for a stereo setup for his Focal speakers.
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Thats correct, but currently am looking to have a pure 2.0 stereo setup using my mm70225 as my power amp.

I have been offered a Classe SSP-800 for £2700 and debating if it will be worth it.
 
joeyjojo said:
Adding more equipment (in this case a preamp) won't necessarily improve your system. In this case I would expect it to add nothing but distortion.

The only reason I can see for a pre-amp here are 1. you have other sources besides the Yamaha, 2. whichever volume control you currently use (receiver/power amp) is inadequate.

Out of interest, why are you running the Marantz? Have you tested the Yamaha on its own? To answer the thread title, if everything is running through the receiver anyway I'd be inclined to use its integrated amp unless it's noticeably poor.
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I was advised the yamaha receiver wouldnt be ideal l to power my 816v and should go the pre out root with power amp... I have never actually tested the A1030 on its own...
 
Adding a power amp will add a small improvement as the amp in something like the Classe will be far superior, however you will still be limiting it by the pre and DAC sections in the Yamaha AVR.

Your best bet would be a separate DAC and power amps. I have the Anthem MRX510 which connects to power amps, it's the best AVR I have had but for music my DAC blows it away.

I have an Audiolab MDAC which has been modified to have an AV bypass so when I switch it off my AVR connects straight through to the power amps.

My suggestion would be a used MDAC, ask Mr Westlake to kindly add AV bypass modification for you. Then get some nice power amps, I built my own using Hypex nc400 modules. This sounds better than the expensive Krell and Musical Fidelity M6i that I had before.
 
The classe is a pre amp so I can do away with the receiver completly and just connect it to my power amp.

Am not to sure how a DAC will help things? Cant get my head round your post to make it clear.

Am looking to remove the receiver out completly and add something in its place that will help improve my sound further.

Am not to sure of the actual benifits from spending so much over just keeping my receiver

I notice my receiver has a optical output. So I could run optical to the Audiolab MDAC and then run that to my power amp?
 
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The weak links in your chain are the (#1) Yamaha as a music preamp and (#2, albeit to a lesser extent) the 5 channel AV power amp.

Throwing money at "upgrades" just because there's a deal on the table isn't the best approach if you're serious about music. There has to be a synergy between the gear. Classe is good stuff but that alone isn't really enough justification for throwing a chunk of cash at what may end up being a sideways move, particularly when spending a bit less on an integrated amp might actually improve things more overall.
 
lucid said:
The weak links in your chain are the (#1) Yamaha as a music preamp and (#2, albeit to a lesser extent) the 5 channel AV power amp.

Throwing money at "upgrades" just because there's a deal on the table isn't the best approach if you're serious about music. There has to be a synergy between the gear. Classe is good stuff but that alone isn't really enough justification for throwing a chunk of cash at what may end up being a sideways move, particularly when spending a bit less on an integrated amp might actually improve things more overall.
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Do you rate this £600 Audiolab MDAC ?

Yamaha A1030 >>>>>> Audiolab MDAC >>>>>>>> Marantz mm70225 power amp >>>>>>> Focal 836v speakers = good combo?
 
What are you using as a source? CD player or streamer?

For music you don't want to use the Yamaha at all. Sorry for my mistake, thought it was a classe power amp you were looking at.

My setup is USB from my PC to the MDAC, balanced XLR cabled to the power amps with short runs of speaker cables to my PMC OB1i.
 
nightrider1470 said:
Do you rate this £600 Audiolab MDAC ?

Yamaha A1030 >>>>>> Audiolab MDAC >>>>>>>> Marantz mm70225 power amp >>>>>>> Focal 836v speakers = good combo?
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It feels like figuratively you're running around just grabbing at anything in the hope that it will be "better". You're talking about throwing around some fairly big chunks of cash here on what seems like a bit of a trolley dash with the rest of us outside pressed up against the glass shouting directions. I'm not at all convinced that this is the way you should be system building at this level.

I've been in a similar situation before. It coincided with the time when I was least happy with my Hi-Fi and the way it made me feel about the music I played. Cobbling together 5 star reviewed products and gear on deals just didn't work for me. It was a miserable time. My solution was to find a good dealer and get back to basics.

The Focals (816v and 836v) are very revealing speakers. My bet is that you haven't yet heard the 816v's really sing, so even that change might be a sideways step.

It's hard to buy bad Hi-Fi gear from the major brands, but that's not the same as saying any combo will work well together. Maybe I'm reading too much between the lines but my impression is that you're not yet ready to put your trust in what a really good dealer can do, and I wouldn't want to waste their time or yours if it's not something you could commit to fully. Try the M-DAC and see how you get on.
 
Nightrider>I can only echo Mr Lucids sentiment.

From your post it just seems a big no no. It doable and listenable but whether you would enjoy the sound is entirely subective to your ears.

Here's the thing. Imagine buying a 1000 pound stereo amp and a 1000 pound av power amp. Your money is going besides other things on two amplifiers within a chassis with a whopping big toroidal power supply.

In the 1000 av power amp whether 5 channel or 7 channel there will be 5/7 power amps respectively. Surely you can appreciate that that power amps within the 1000 pound av amp has been picked to fulfil that budget and there fore there is no way possible it can match the quality of the 1000 pound amps in the stereo power amp.

I can see the classe amps working well with your speaker due to their tonal signature combined with classe. BUT you need to be able to home demo them as 2700 either way you cut it is no small sum of money.

I do rate the mdac but it seriously outclassed by the classe power amp. And that's why you need to get the classe in for demo and then go find a digital dac/pre amp. You should be aiming at the next tier up if you are serious about spending 2700 on a power amp and then partnering it with the Yamaha.

You should also understand that while your speaker are highly revealing partnering with classe amp would change that to a certain degree. Most classe I have listened to have a nice, refined sound polite even. While it is one of it strengths it is also it achilles heal. Small ensemble, orchestra, chamber music will have you in a frenzy at it delivery and just pure seductiveness of sound.

But if you say prefer like thrash metal, drum and bass classe would be the last amp I would recommend to you. That's another factor do you have like a general taste in music or is it more genre specific.

Good luck with your upgrade and I will be looking forward to how you get on.
 
nightrider1470 said:
Thats correct, but currently am looking to have a pure 2.0 stereo setup using my mm70225 as my power amp.

I have been offered a Classe SSP-800 for £2700 and debating if it will be worth it.
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If you're looking for a pure 2.0 stereo setup, why are you considering a ten-channel preamp/processor ??
 
What is the source of the music?

You should do something like this:
Movie/film source > AV amp pre outs > Marantz > speakers.
Music source > Marantz > speakers

But you can't as it's only an poweramp.

If you want to spend money, then spend it on replacing the Maranz with an amp that has HT/AV bypass on the input. This way you do not need to volume match as the new amp will simply turn into a power amp when you listen to your movie/tv source. Then switch its input to CD or whatever for hifi duties.

I've just done the same, I bought a Roksan K3 after reading many reviews and in no uncertain terms it blows my Pioneer SC2024 out of the weeds when streaming from my Sonos CONNECT, which arguably isn't the best source either.
 
Then you're unlikely to improve SQ with an amp or preamp. Can you bypass the processing in the Yamaha and go optical out into a DAC, then into a preamp or amp?

Another option is an amp like I suggested and buy a Sonos CONNECT. The DAC in it is not bad at all to be honest, then add your Spotify into Sonos.
 
Key information there, So source is streamed Tidal/Spotify feed, direct into the AV amp assume it's connected to the internet? ....Hopefully the higher bit rate feeds, 16/44.1 FLAC ?

To the original question, I would keep the speakers for now and the power amp as is. If 2 channel is now the only requirement then yes you could replace the AV amp.... with a Streamer (Which is a DAC with network interface and control interface built in one box)
Some will have in built volume control (either digital or analogue) so could be plugged direct into the power amp.
They will also have a control app for iPad etc so you will keep the ease of use and convenience and potentially improve the sound.
 
Someone mentioned the Audiolab MDAC..... Couldnt I run optical out from my AV receiver to the Audiolab MDAC then to my power amp?? Good option?

Doing this I get to still use the network features of the Receiver while using the better DAC of the Audiolab MDAC
 
You can connect the MDAC directly to a power amp. That's what Nick does and it was designed that way from what I have read. The only slight concern is will whatever audio being sent into the receiver, bypass any internal processing and be sent directly out through the optical into a connected DAC?

I'm sceptical that it will work like that. S2KIP questioned the same thing. If it can't, then adding a quality DAC via the optical output would be a waste of time.

In the manual, Yamaha mention that the optical output is meant for recording purposes. Whilst any connected DAC will function, just functioning is not good enough. The point of splashing £600 on a DAC is to get the best sound you can, and if the receiver is going to process any incoming audio first before sending that to the DAC, then you aren't going to get the best out of the DAC.

I assume you have a PC or laptop connected to the receiver in order to use Tidal?

Just connect that directly to the MDAC > power amp > speakers. Trying to incorporate the receiver in and send all audio through that when you are trying to achieve a pure stereo system, is the limiting factor.

For a pure stereo system, you are going to be better off by missing out the receiver altogether.
 
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